S6: Southern Heritage Act (passed)

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Southern Heritage act

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Sponsor: Ben Kenobi

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Floor is open for debate

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The Stars and Bars are not representative of the entire Southern population, especially not the South's black population.

This. I also agree with diptheriadan in that I could support an amended version that is much friendlier. I grew up in the South and realize that the Stars and Bars doesn't mean necessarily mean racism, but it's unlikely that we can make people see otherwise. As representatives of the South, we shouldn't alienate those who feel like the flag doesn't include them. I hope we can use this as an opportunity to come up with ways to amend this that makes everyone happy.

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Unfortunately the side that doesn't want it flown is tearing down Confederate monuments, digging up Confederate graveyards. The issue isn't that they believe it represents slavery, the issue is that they are trying to remove it entirely from history.

That is wrong. How can we accommodate people that believe that the entire existence of the confederacy is a stain on their personal history, despite the fact that none of them have ever lived under slavery?

Yeah, I get it that some people might be offended, but look at it this way. Irish people were slaves too, Irish people had the entire potato famine where England starved them rather than try to save their lives.

No one living today has been a slave. Do we have a right to be aggrieved for what some of our ancestors may have suffered?

I'm fine with protecting the Stars and Bars, as well as protecting monuments and graveyards. While I don't think it represents all of the South, we should never erase history. People can't learn from past mistakes if we can't even recognize that they existed in the first place.

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And to note with one of Ben's previous comments, digging up and destroying grave sites is vile. I get that people have their rights to be unhappy with the confederacy, but one should never desecrate a grave. Those people are someone's ancestors, people who had loved ones who cared about those people and the lives they lived. Many confederate soldiers were not slave owners,  and to lump them as such is unfair, especially when they cannot be present to defend their reasons for fighting.

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I thought you were taking out the chamber flying the stars and bars? unless I misread

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What if we only flew the flag on Confederate Memorial Day? That way we get the chance to honor our Southern heritage in a way that pleases many Southerners, but we aren't making it a regular thing to alienate others.

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So just to be clear, this is what we are discussing now, with my current suggestion.

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I don't think the Confederate flag is something to be honored, any day of the year.

So one should not honor their ancestors in the ways they see fit?

Also the reason I suggested Confederate Memorial Day is because it it to honor those who fought and died. It's not honoring the Confederacy, it's paying respect to those who shaped the South into the strong region we have today.

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https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=254935.0

Southern Heritage Day already exists.

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Fair enough. I sponsor NeverAgain's amendment.

That's fine, but the current motion on the floor is Ben's motion for a final vote.

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That being said, I second Ben Kenobi's motion and am bringing the bill to a 48 hour final vote as amended:

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AYE

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With all delegates having voted, the Southern Heritage Act passes with 4 votes in favor and one against.

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Huzzah!

Yay! Now we finally as a region can start honoring the BAD parts of our past, like the Confederacy!

Pretty progressive, huh? Even got Ben on board!

We should acknowledge and respect ALL parts of our history, the good and the bad. It is the good that we celebrate, and the bad we recognize having made us stronger.

But should Germany fly a Nazi flag once a year? Yes, they should recognize that history so that they don't repeat it, and they SHOULD allow private citizens to fly that flag (even though that is of course an awful thing to do), but I don't think the government should be doing that.

The difference is that the Confederate battle flag has been used as a symbol of the South for 150 years since 1861, while the flag of the NSDAP was only used for a very brief amount of time comparatively. For over a century now the stars and bars have been synonymous with the identity and unique culture of the South, something that the Swastika has never gained in regards to Germany.

There are many regions in the general Southern area that reject the flag and don't identify with it, including much of Missouri, likely most parts of Maryland and Delaware, and I'm sure black enclaves in the Deep South don't view it positively. We shouldn't fly a flag that some people have a legitimate reason for calling a hate symbol on any day of the year.

My amendment and suggestions to Mr. Kenobi were put in place to honor and respect fallen Confederate soldiers. This was not something done to honor the Confederacy (nor anything you are claiming it means) or to alienate others. Do you feel that Confederate soldiers should not be honored and respected? The flag is being flown for one day, to pay respects on an existing holiday. We were not the ones trying to tarnish their memory and make it into something that had nothing to do with it. If you want to designate an entirely different holiday to celebrate diversity and the successes of the civil rights movement, by all means, no one has stopped you from introducing it in the legislation thread. And I would wholeheartedly support any efforts to celebrate that as well.

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I am saddened to see that Governor NeverAgain has chosen to act against the wishes of the delegates in this Chamber, as well as the people of the South.

In response, I am bringing this bill to a 48 hour vote to override his veto.

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AYE

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Now that the 48 hours are up, the vote to override Governor NeverAgain's veto on this bill passes, with 3 votes in favor and one against.

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I'm fine with extending it so that celtic can vote.

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I am extending the voting for 48 hours from the time of the end of the last vote to allow additional time for celtic. If he does not vote in that time frame, the original vote of 3-1 stands.

For the purpose of clarity, this means voting ends 05/14/2017 at 10:04:30 pm.

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Um...what lawsuit?

This one:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=262407.0

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Why are we arguing about the lawsuit on this thread?

I politely request and highly suggest you and Ben take this to the appropriate thread, Mr. Cuber.

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Um...what lawsuit?

This one:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=262407.0

I thought that that was all sorted out.

It was opened back up when the bill passed.

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Sorry for the delay, but since the voting period has ended and no votes were cast, the original vote of 3 in favor, 1 against stands, and the veto override passes.

(Apologies for the mistake in number of votes, it was 5am and I didn't see that I tyed "4" instead of "3")