COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[Koharu]

As for religious services, Christians, who are being the most vocal, have no mandate to attend services in their religious text. Other religions which do have a mandate almost immediately spoke out, absolving people of the mandate, knowing that preserving the lives of their members is the best way to allow worship to continue.

While missing out on the social aspect is very disappointing, and for religions for which there is a mandate for communal worship it must feel wrong at times, the health and safety of worshippers should be the first concern of those leading. If we, as religious people, are willing to put aside the safety of our own congregants for the sake of tradition and the comfort of routine, what kind of statement are we making to those who do not follow our faith? It comes off as extremely entitled and selfish.

That said, at this point I do believe limited services (25% capacity) with leaders enforcing social distancing and mask wearing would be acceptable and on-par with business reopenings. Outdoor services with social distancing are also an option that should be explored.

[Koharu]

Nope as long as tens of thousands of people are protesting in the streets, anyone has the right to go to church.

No one is going to stop then if they go if their church allows them to attend. It's just dangerous for them and especially congregants that are in higher risk groups.

[Koharu]

I don't think heat is the element that helps outdoors so much as sunlight. UV as a sanitizing force, etc.

And again, I think the protests are dangerous and I wish people weren't protesting right now, but the momentum would be lost in a few months, and people are protesting something that has been a problem for hundreds of years. I still think that they should be distancing as much as possible, but just as I won't deny others had the right to protest, so too do these people have the right.

I would love to join them and in normal circumstances would be joining then but have not because of the virus. The same is true of many people I know. So there are many aware of the potential danger and many that would like to be out who are not.

[Koharu]

Dane County has now become a "hotspot," with over 60 new cases this weekend, whereas our goal to stay on track for the next phase of reopening would require less than 20 cases per day. The county is worrying about possibly having to step back to phase 1 instead of remaining in phase 2, though they did not establish any plans for how they would actually do that if it becomes necessary. 66% of the new cases this past week were in people 10-39, who do have a better chance of doing well, but it's still not a guarantee. As a person in that age group with high blood pressure (controlled extremely well with medication, thankfully), I'm terrified of this. I don't want to die, but I do have to buy groceries and do other tasks and so many people are not wearing masks.

[Koharu]

Does the high blood pressure risk factor go away if it's lowered by medication?

My understanding is no, but I am not a medical professional and may have completely wrong information.

[Koharu]

My stepdad, who has COPD, high blood pressure, diabetes, and just turned 68 in June, is likely one of the numbers in Georgia's big increase. I don't know for sure, but the symptoms he mentioned on Facebook before going incommunicado were COVID symptoms. He was hospitalized one week after his birthday, which involved visitors with no masks. I'm very angry about these circumstances and many other personal things. He believed it was a hoax and overhyped. There is no pleasure in being proven right when knowing he is suffering significantly. At this point, it sounds unlikely he will make it.

I'm angry at Georgia for allowing restaurants to be open. I'm angry at Fox and other disinformation sources feeding people these lies. I'm angry at him. I'm angry at the people he moved in with who were supposed to be protecting him. I'm angry at Trump for pretending this is no big deal. I'm angry I can't go be with him. This didn't have to happen.

This didn't have to happen and it infuriates me.

[Koharu]

The Mount Rushmore speech is infuriating. I pray that everyone who attends it stays healthy and well, though I'm afraid that will not be the case at all.

[Koharu]

And this isn’t how Europe deals with general unemployment, right?  Is it a completely new set of  programs that multiple countries managed to efficiently assemble regardless of ideology of the government or opposition?  That also doesn’t strike me as a progressive vs. conservative difference.

The reason for paying employers is so they keep people employed rather than firing them. That way it's not an unemployment issue at all. Basically, it allows the businesses to not sink from having to continue to pay wages, but also not lose their employees. It's a much better way to maintain the shape of the economy, IMO.

[Koharu]

https://twitter.com/TimOBrien/status/1279400518180384769

[Koharu]

And this isn’t how Europe deals with general unemployment, right?  Is it a completely new set of  programs that multiple countries managed to efficiently assemble regardless of ideology of the government or opposition?  That also doesn’t strike me as a progressive vs. conservative difference.

The reason for paying employers is so they keep people employed rather than firing them. That way it's not an unemployment issue at all. Basically, it allows the businesses to not sink from having to continue to pay wages, but also not lose their employees. It's a much better way to maintain the shape of the economy, IMO.

I think I agree with this.
I’m just wondering why it seems like both parties in the US thought that just directly giving people extra money was a better solution.  Like, what’s the other side of the argument, whether you are a progressive or a conservative?

I think here there's not even the consideration of directly paying a company just for payroll. We're too hands-off for that sort of intervention, which is absolutely ridiculous, but America on the whole believes corporations should have freedom to choose what to do, and if we're going to give them money, it'll have no real strings attached for what they have to use it for. Can't interfere with the free market etc.

[Koharu]

https://twitter.com/madison_365/status/1279430987118772224?s=20

[Koharu]

Not sure where you're getting the data about the protests and would like to see information backing that up. Here in Wisconsin, it's an increase among young people as well, but a large percentage traced back to bars, not protests.

Protests are not currently associated with Dane County's rise in COVID-19 cases

What the data look like today

Here’s a recap of the data from June:

622 people tested positive for COVID-19 in Dane County between June 1 through June 24. For the question "In the 14 days before symptom onset, did you attend a gathering, party, or meeting with people from outside your household":

•     288 answered "No."
•     213 answered "Yes", and of those, 12 said they had attended a protest.
•     6 answered "Unknown."

From June 13 through June 26, 614 people tested positive for COVID-19 in Dane County. Here’s what we know about these cases:

•     45% of cases interviewed reported attending a gathering or party with people outside of their household.
•     28% of cases (a total of 172) were associated with a cluster: 132 from bars, 14 from workplaces, 11 from congregate facilities, 3 from daycares/preschools, and 12 from other clusters.

Our data are not showing a large impact from protests at this time. This makes sense when thinking about what protests look like: they are outside, many people are wearing masks, and people are moving and not always near the same people for an extended period of time. With what we know about COVID-19, this activity is going to be less risky than gatherings that are indoors, do not have physical distancing, do not have people wearing masks, and include the same people near each other for extended periods of time.

[Koharu]

It is illegal for those between 18-21 to go to bars.

What?? I never got that memo.  

You may have had a special ID.

49% of new COVID-19 cases in Dane County Wisconsin (i.e. Madison, and University of Wisconsin) were 18-25. I suspect that a large number of those were infected at bars near to the campus, and some were there to loudly brag (because the bar was loud, and they were half drunk, and they were excited about being at the protest after 3 months of classes on zoom) to whomever they were trying to impress.

You completely ignored the data I shared from Dane county that shows only a tiny fraction of people who tested positive were at protests. The bar crowd and the protest crowd are very different. That's why I asked for proof re: elsewhere, as your conjecture doesn't match the available information in Dane county.

[Koharu]

The number of sheriffs saying they won't enforce the mask requirements is frustrating. Butler County in Ohio is between Cincinnati and Dayton and is considered a hotspot and thus requires masks, but the sheriff has stated he won't enforce it. I have a friend who is a librarian in Dayton and she and her coworkers are facing patrons who don't mask up. A nearby library had a staff member test positive, so their fear is justified.

Sheriffs in Texas have also spoken publicly about their intent to not enforce the requirement. I believe some in Arizona have as well, but I don't have the receipts for that the way I do for Texas and Ohio. I can only hope that the requirement encourages more people to wear them even without enforcement.

[Koharu]

For the folks still talking about masks...

[Koharu]

Not everyone who is 65 or older is a step away from death. Not everyone who has a chronic illness that makes coronavirus much worse is close to dying. It is not acceptable to claim that the 135k deaths so far in the US would have happened anyway.

[Koharu]

https://twitter.com/madison_365/status/1281261896033861639?s=20

[Koharu]

I don't even know what to think anymore. The spread of conspiracies is making the virus spread. Contact tracing is how countries that have been successful have done it. You have to get people who have been in contact with positive cases to quarantine.

https://twitter.com/madison_365/status/1282315781607489536?s=20

https://twitter.com/madison_365/status/1282331942147555333?s=20

[Koharu]

Snip!

I dunno. I wish my stepdad had lived to see Trump wear a mask--his response would help me better gauge these folks. But without that information, I feel like such immediate turnaround indicates a bot. That said, if they're not bots, it demonstrates how flipping important it is for Trump to wear a mask as an example.

[Koharu]

Snip!

Stay safe, friend. I've been worried about you since you are on the front lines in regards to public contact.

[Koharu]

https://nbc25news.com/news/state/man-killed-by-police-after-mask-dispute-at-michigan-store?fbclid=IwAR31eD16P_lz4gZyYNxXmwATetAKrs2Ba9SR9nrqdQcGqmhnYpDo9Gmd7gk

Covidiot in Grand Ledge, Michigan walks into a store without a mask and is confronted by the clerk and a customer wearing a mask. He pulls out a knife and begins stabbing the customer before fleeing in his car. An Eaton County sheriff’s deputy pulls the suspect over and he threatens the cop with the knife. The man is then shot and killed by the deputy.

This is so depressingly representative of America right now. Ugh.

[Koharu]

How many times does this need to be said?!

This virus does not just kill and negatively affect older people.

[Koharu]

https://twitter.com/fowlcomics/status/1282771563868299271?s=20

[Koharu]

Retail CEOs: Enough is enough. It's time for all US governors to require masks in stores (written by 21 CEOs of major US retailers)

Huh. Interesting combination of stores there, but definitely a variety across the retail spectrum.

[Koharu]

Kids spread COVID just as well as anyone, even if they tend to be asymptomatic. But sure, let's force teachers to work in close proximity with ~30 kids so that their lives are endangered, as well as the 30 families associated with those kids, plus the paraprofessionals and office staff. Don't forget lunch time, when usually 1/2 or 1/3 a school's population is in close proximity while eating.

Yeah, expecting school to go anywhere near back to normal is expecting way too much. Super small class sizes, isolated classrooms in various building, alternating schedules, etc, are my suggestions, but the most safe options require more people or personnel than exist.