Clinton leaves 9/11 memorial early due to 'overheating' - Update: diagnosed with pneumonia

[Dr. Arch]

I'm exhausted about all of this. I need a break, which I will promptly take. I'll be back tomorrow or maybe the next day when things normalize a little bit.

[Dr. Arch]

Positive Spins are happening, and they are very reasonable and latch onto what I was saying earlier in a thread that disappeared:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillarys-pneumonia-the-medias-lowest-moment_us_57d5d5fae4b0f831f70721ff

[Dr. Arch]

This might end up having a long term positive impact if worked correctly. The media is starting to take count of all the things she did even while she was facing pneumonia.

[Dr. Arch]

This might end up having a long term positive impact if worked correctly. The media is starting to take count of all the things she did even while she was facing pneumonia.

This is why we females live longer than males. Males may be physically stronger muscle-wise, but we have it all over them in toughness and longevity. Not to mention we give birth!!!

A little illness (or a big one) never stops us, but some little bone spurs on his foot stopped Trump from allowing himself to be drafted. Wuss!

As a gay man, I have nothing but admiration for what women endure with a smile on their faces every day. My mom is a prime example.

[Dr. Arch]

I wonder if this will be the beginning of people realizing they have been way too hard on her.

Yes. It feels that way. This might all end up blowing up on Trump's face rather than indirectly helping him.

I already respected HRC for her work ethic, but this is just leaps and bounds of what I would expect from anyone. Pneumonia is debilitating when suffering the symptoms, and she still trail-blazed ahead.

[Dr. Arch]

I wonder if this will be the beginning of people realizing they have been way too hard on her.

You'll try and spin anything wont you?

Well, it's true. She has pneumonia and didn't tell the public because she knew she was being held to a ridiculous standard that put her in a catch-22 scenario. So instead, she forged ahead, kept on with a full schedule, and overall had a pretty decent week. And she's done all of this with a smile on her face, backwards and in high heels.

The way she quietly confronts her challenges—ones that another person probably wouldn't have to face in the same position—without making hay of the situation is pretty admirable.

↑

[Dr. Arch]

I see the ridiculous arguments continue. How does catching pneumonia attest to anyone's general stamina? How does catching any contagious illness at all disqualify anyone from office because they wouldn't have "sick days"?

Are you saying that a person's state when they are sick is equivalent to their state when they aren't?

Are you saying that someone running for president can't get sick because, as it was stated above, ISIS doesn't take sick days?

How absurd. And the fact that people like Seriously? come to defend this only lowers my opinions of them. I thought the mental gymnastics were limited to substantiating Trump support and interpreting faux hit pieces, but I have been proven wrong.

[Dr. Arch]

Are you being intentionally obtuse here? Pneumonia is an illness, and Clinton's weakness today was a direct consequence of that illness. Drawing conclusions about general "stamina," and suggesting that in her pneumonia-weakened state she should have been able to handle stresses equally as well as a person without an illness can handle, is an example of either willful ignorance, or intentional obfuscation.

I'm sorry, I didn't know that ISIS would give a President Clinton sick days when she isn't feeling up to the task of managing the nation.

Occupying the Oval Office actually does require you to push through being "overheated" because otherwise we could all die. And for the record, she supposedly only has a mild case of walking pneumonia that should not have handicapped her this bad.

↑ All of the information is right there. Even if your intent wasn't to say that she's not qualified because of her taking some days off of the campaign trail due to pneumonia, you're still saying that she hasn't "pushed through" like other presidents have. That is categorically false as a premise and invalidates the rest of your argument. Because, in fact, she went on for 2 DAYS with pneumonia through national security briefings, fund raising, constant flights, speeches, and 90 minutes in the sun at the 9/11 memorial before she FINALLY needed to rest.

You either: A) ignore that fact ↑ and continue with your argument as quoted above or you B) accept that fact and continue with the line or argumentation that I presumed you were going for. Either way, it's a flawed argument.

If anything, assuming that you went for route (A) because my presumption of route (B) was apparently a strawman, she just proved her stamina for the presidency.

The last piece with the supposéd Tu quoque fallacy wasn't even directed at you. The post was a general address to everyone involved in the discussion, including the guy from Missouri (?), but you assumed it was all about you.

Also, I would like to add this:

[Dr. Arch]

Hillary Clinton covered up her pneumonia.

What will she be covering up if she becomes President?

This shows two things

She cannot be trusted

Her health is too frail for her to serve as President

She caught a contagious temporary illness; therefore, her permanent health isn't up to the job... Are you guys serious?

[Dr. Arch]

This has just reduced to constant paper ball throwing from both sides of the argument, so here are my final two cents on the subject, barring any new developments.

On the subject of how she chose not to reveal her condition to the public, it's a damned if she did; damned if she didn't situation. We have already seen how it has been spun by her opponents. If she would have revealed it, it would have been followed up by the previous brain problem conspiracies and that would have been the chatter of the day, around the lines of "See. There's something else going on." Heck, Trump still intimated to this degree today.

On the subject of how catching pneumonia is viewed, detractors will find fault and somehow attribute this to a permanent health deficiency when it's obviously not. Supporters will point out that it's temporary and that there have been extremely effective presidents even with permanent conditions, such as FDR and polio. Those that are neutral will make note of this as well.

On the subject of how this affects voters' current decisions/polls, supporters won't leave, detractors will not join because of this. Those who were on the fence might see it positively because she continued campaigning for days even with pneumonia. Others who were on the fence will buy into the supposéd permanent problems idea and break away. Overall, it'll likely be a wash depending on how things develop. Her long term health, and therefore her physical fitness for office, is in no way compromised just because of pneumonia.

On the subject of how this will affect the final outcome of the election, all of the debates are still ahead of us, and those will have a more significant impact and will override this conversation by the time they are aired. Historically, candidates leading on and around Labor Day after their conventions have gone on to win the election. So there's that.

I will take my departure from this thread leaving these thoughts. This conversation has just turned into an melodramatic hyper-partisan sh**t show by this point. There is nothing else to add.

[Dr. Arch]

I knew it would be spun positively and precisely as I predicted.

"Working While Sick Isn't a Hillary Thing, It's an American Thing"

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-presenteeism_us_57d6e18fe4b00642712ea22b?

"By attending an event on Sunday while sick with pneumonia, Clinton succumbed to “presenteeism,” or showing up to work when you’re really not feeling well. The goal: to demonstrate that you’re a hard worker and that you’re not fragile or weak.

That’s a particularly important notion for the country’s first major-party female presidential nominee ― and judging by some reactions, Clinton succeeded on that score."

[Dr. Arch]

I knew it would spun positively and precisely as I predicted.

You do understand that linking to some articles doesn't count, don't you?

Yeah, at this point there's a cottage industry for pumping out negative/positive clickbait for every news event.  What matters is the tenor of mainstream media outlets.

Perception is only that matters.

But ok, do you think that "the tenor of mainstream media outlets" was positive towards Clinton?

Not at the beginning, but this different narrative has been emerging on social media and on mainstream media. And I believe it's a more accurate portrayal of, not only what Hillary goes through, but what most Americans do when they're sick.

[Dr. Arch]

Gary Johnson: Clinton health questions are not legitimate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/09/13/gary-johnson-clinton-health-questions-are-not-legitimate/

FF