NYT- President Biden considering sending thousands of troops to Eastern Europe and Baltics (user search)
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  NYT- President Biden considering sending thousands of troops to Eastern Europe and Baltics (search mode)
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Author Topic: NYT- President Biden considering sending thousands of troops to Eastern Europe and Baltics  (Read 4063 times)
Frodo
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« on: January 23, 2022, 09:55:11 PM »

What's a little nuclear war done to anyone?

Roll Eyes

There is not going to be a nuclear war.  If it didn't happen even during the very worst moments of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union, it certainly isn't going to happen now. 
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Frodo
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2022, 10:35:44 PM »
« Edited: January 23, 2022, 10:39:58 PM by Frodo »

Dems deserve to lose if they're going to do this. At least Republicans are honest about not giving a sh**t about their own country.

So we should abandon a democratic country (with strategic value and who wants to be our ally) to its fate?

This situation is not an Iraq War 2.0. And everyone should realize this.

This is a serious serious Great Power Struggle on the level of 1930's Europe. We have Russia who is a declining power, by all measures, who wants to have it's last go around the sun. We have almost all of Europe ( with the exception of Germany ? ), jumping in on this. Estonia, Lituhania, hell even freaking JAPAN. Denmark has sent fighter jets to Eastern Europe. Spain.

Literally all of Europe is freaking out. This is not Iraq 2.0. Why do we think it is ?



Because we are in the midst of the Vietnam War Syndrome 2.0 (thanks mainly to our failures in Iraq and Afghanistan) whose namesake bedeviled every President from Gerald Ford to George Bush until our clear and decisive victory in Operation Desert Storm.  
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Frodo
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2022, 02:43:29 AM »

What's a little nuclear war done to anyone?

Roll Eyes

There is not going to be a nuclear war.  If it didn't happen even during the very worst moments of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union, it certainly isn't going to happen now.  

That's not an argument that it won't happen now. Generally I think that sentiment is correct, if something was really likely before and didn't happen and it's a lot less likely now then it probably won't happen. But when we're talking about potentially everyone dying we can't just dismiss the possibility because it's unlikely.

Here is the thing -I can trust states to be rational and act upon the principle of self-preservation.  As long as nuclear weapons remain in the hands of governments (and not private actors) like the United States, Russia, China, or even Iran and North Korea, I do not worry about the possibility of nuclear war.  I just don't.  You can always negotiate with them if things start getting out of hand.  

On the other hand, the mere thought of al Qaeda or the Islamic State (or another terrorist group) getting their hands on a 'dirty' nuclear bomb is positively terrifying, and one that would definitely keep me up at night because I know nothing will deter them from using it on their enemies once they get their hands on it.  You cannot reason with them.
 That is something GOT and others should really be worried about.  Not the idea of two nuclear states having a nuclear war with one another.  
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Frodo
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2022, 10:17:36 PM »

It is exactly the sending of weapons to Ukraine and movement of U.S. troops to the eastern frontier as well as threats of devastating sanctions that so many here decry as 'escalations' that will limit Putin's actions and ambitions not just in Ukraine but for Finland, the Baltic states, and Poland.  By deterring (or at least limiting) Putin's freedom of action in Ukraine, we will ensure the security of our eastern-most NATO allies who occupy the front-line vis-a-vis Russia. The worst thing is to be timid -it will only encourage Putin.  
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