Do you support Catalan independence from Spain? (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 16, 2024, 05:51:34 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Individual Politics (Moderator: The Dowager Mod)
  Do you support Catalan independence from Spain? (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: ?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 72

Author Topic: Do you support Catalan independence from Spain?  (Read 2527 times)
Statilius the Epicurean
Thersites
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,618
United Kingdom


« on: September 15, 2017, 04:33:46 PM »

No. Catalan Nationalism seems to be mainly based on a smug superiority over southerners, like if the Northern League pretended to be left.

Nationalism is a curse, especially by thr "left". Imagine if all those young leftist activists matching for yet another nation-state put their efforts into something that actually helped the cause?

What about Palestinian nationalism?

also bad, as is Israeli nationalism (i.e. Zionism of an exclusive character). I do not see why either ordinary Israelis or Palestinians will be helped out by a "two-state solution" which bifurcates a territory which should be a home for both groups of people into two weaker, gerrymanderd states at  permanent odds with each other. If Jews wish to settle in the West Bank and Gaza that is their right, and if Palestinians wish to return to their homeland that is also their right. Unfortunately, would require overturning all the nationalists on both sides with no interest in uniting people, and only in the right-wing identity politics that proclaims that "nation-states" should be created to be safe spaces for an ethnicity or language.

You can't see how Palestinians would be helped by an end to the occupation? Seriously?
Logged
Statilius the Epicurean
Thersites
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,618
United Kingdom


« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2017, 07:18:23 PM »

No. Catalan Nationalism seems to be mainly based on a smug superiority over southerners, like if the Northern League pretended to be left.

Nationalism is a curse, especially by thr "left". Imagine if all those young leftist activists matching for yet another nation-state put their efforts into something that actually helped the cause?

What about Palestinian nationalism?

also bad, as is Israeli nationalism (i.e. Zionism of an exclusive character). I do not see why either ordinary Israelis or Palestinians will be helped out by a "two-state solution" which bifurcates a territory which should be a home for both groups of people into two weaker, gerrymanderd states at  permanent odds with each other. If Jews wish to settle in the West Bank and Gaza that is their right, and if Palestinians wish to return to their homeland that is also their right. Unfortunately, would require overturning all the nationalists on both sides with no interest in uniting people, and only in the right-wing identity politics that proclaims that "nation-states" should be created to be safe spaces for an ethnicity or language.

You can't see how Palestinians would be helped by an end to the occupation? Seriously?

Yes. Entrenchment of the two state solution would be a reinforcement of the notion that two peoples of different ethnicity cannot live in the same country because reasons, and so there would be forced a great movement with ordinary Palestinians being forced from their homes and businesses to live in their new "homeland", in reality a tool designed to enrich a small unrepresentative later of elite. The new state will be underfunded, weak and literally divided. Palestinians who work in Israel will continue to be stopped and checked constantly. Jerusalem will enjoy artificially and crudely partitioned. The Gaza blockade will continue. And the two new weak states will be at constant loggerheads anyway (yeah, so will the one state solution, but there are no good answers here).

This is a cute stance for an armchair intellectual living thousands of miles away in safety. Go and tell Palestinians whose homes are being seized and bulldozed by the Israeli state that living under a Palestinian government would be no better for them. I'm sure they would agree with you that a "crude" partition of Jerusalem is worse than being victims of ethnic cleansing.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.021 seconds with 14 queries.