Why is the GOP establishment so anti-libertarian in their policy? (user search)
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  Why is the GOP establishment so anti-libertarian in their policy? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Why is the GOP establishment so anti-libertarian in their policy?  (Read 3032 times)
Leinad
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,049
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91

« on: June 04, 2015, 06:38:19 AM »
« edited: June 04, 2015, 06:41:53 AM by Leinad »

I'm a non-libertarian Republican, and I think that the two ideologies have a lot in common, but that does not mean that a Conservative might as well be a Libertarian and vice versa.  I support an interventionalist foreign policy when necessary, believe that certain programs are necessary for national security, and think that the government does have a role in enforcing a certain moral code (i.e. not being able to kill unborn children), which puts me at odds with the Libertarian wing of our party.

Republicans who are on the wrong side of things never fail to amuse me with such gems as trying to make abortion out to be murder.

Anyway, it's because Libertarianism is something you grow out of once you're older than 18.

Abortion is about whether the fetus is a life or not. If it is, it's technically murder and should be illegal. If it isn't, go right ahead. What irritates me is conservatives who also oppose birth control and sex-ed.

It's also not an issue only the religious right oppose, and the "pro-life" (both "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are terribly loaded terms, by the way) movement hurts themselves by emphasizing the religious aspect of it.

But in general, I'm quite socially liberal. I'm in favor of legalizing all of these "victimless crimes" that conservatives think we need to restrict--anything where the only "victim" is the one making the voluntary choice to do this. This includes drugs, gambling, prostitution, et cetera. I'm also in favor of letting anyone marry anyone (with consent, of course), if we let the government stay in marriage to begin with.

----

Now, to your second part, which I'm actually more eager to rebuke.

How come libertarianism is considered a childish philosophy? It's in fact the simplest and, if I do say so myself, most logical mainstream political philosophy there is. Limited government. That's it. We mostly agree with liberals on social issues, often taking it further, and we mostly agree with conservatives on economic issues, again often taking it further in favor of limiting the role of government. We also have a non-interventionist foreign policy--again, this ties in to limiting the role of government.

It's a simple ideology, and just as valid as liberalism and conservatism. Is it more theoretical than practical? Yes, because we've never been given a chance to run the country due to the inefficient voting system. But it's still valid, and it makes as much sense as others. It's not contradictory, and it's well-defined along all issues.

To us, liberty is a more important value than enforced "equality" or enforced "morality," and the best way to achieve liberty is through reducing the influence of the government. I'm baffled that people think this is such a crazy thought.
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Leinad
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,049
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91

« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 03:53:55 AM »

Because Libertarianism isn't a popular ideology - outside of the Internet, George Mason University and among undergrad Econ majors, and maybe some Young Republicans clubs.

Popularity doesn't decide the legitimacy of an ideology, or what's correct or incorrect. While few people profess to be libertarians, many and many more are becoming distrusting of the government, and supporting less intervention from them in the economy, personal lives, and foreign policy.

How come libertarianism is considered a childish philosophy?
Typical Team Blue vs. Team Red monopoly tactic.

It's harder for the left to demonize libertarians as evil thugs (since they don't fit within the "blood for oil" or "iz muh body you old white man" talking points), so the only way to prevent possible Democrats or liberals from defecting is to just dismiss the ideology off-hand. Like how whenever someone says "hey, maybe we should ask ourselves if this particular law is necessary" the typical bs lefty response is to start shouting "SOMALIA" because apparently you can either want all government (minus abortion regulations) or no government whatsoever. When a libertarian points out how stupid and hackish that logic is, its much easier to just double down on "you don't know anything. You're so immature. Your beliefs are extreme because they aren't our beliefs you child. Libertarianism only works in regards to issues WE care about."

Exactly. I find that strawmen are a favorite tactic of both teams. Liberals think I, as a libertarian, am a greedy, poor-hating c*pitalist, and conservatives seem to think I'm...a liberal. They think in terms of left vs. right, us vs. them, me vs. you, good vs. pure evil. To them, you either agree completely or are...[sinister close-up]...the enemy.

Nothing personal, but libertarians are, generally, how do I say it politely, out there.

Not sure what "out there" means. At a certain period in history, abolitionists were considered "out there." Deviance from the mainstream isn't a bad thing when mainstream leadership has caused all these problems we face today.

Libertarianism has that reputation because of it's simplicity. Stripping the government down to a constitutionalist shell and trusting the corporations of the "free market" to regulate themselves and manage the economy in a benevolent manner is naive.

Not sure why simplicity is a bad thing. Limiting the government in all categories is simple, yes, but it's logically consistent. Conservatives basically say "limit the government, except in social issues" and liberals basically say "limit the government, except in economic issues." In a sense, those are more logically inconsistent than limiting the government in all categories.

Simplicity, I think, is a selling point if anything. It's certainly not a disadvantage, unless your grasping at straws trying to delegitimize the ideology. And I agree that the free market doesn't always work, but I'd rather retain economic freedom, minimal taxes, and try to fix problems in a voluntary manner.

What a clever comeback.

Of course, I shouldn't expect some sort of witty retort requiring more than five seconds of thought from a Libertarian.

My my, sweeping negative generalizations? I would've thought better from a compassionate, kind-hearted liberal!

(Was that too snarky? Eh, libertarians aren't stupid, as you implied, but a bit of snark is a common feature.)
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