Trump Jr./Russian lawyer meeting: Jr. knew info was part of Russian Gov effort

[Crumpets]

He will dismiss it as #fakenews

One of the most suspicious things about Trump's behavior re: the Russia story is that he doesn't own it like all of his other scandals. Mexico sending rapists? I'm just telling it like it is! Bragging about sexual assault? It's just locker room talk! Firing Comey? The guy's a nut job! Improper relations with the Russian government? Don't know what you're talking about - didn't happen. If Trump was the chess master his supporters portray him as, he'd have been out in front of this story long ago, decrying how stupid the laws must be that important businessmen running for president can't collude with foreign governments, or saying that he and Putin are working on some super secret plan to kill all terrorists and bring back coal, or something, and anyone who questions their motives is an ISIS operative.

[Crumpets]

So fun fact: the lawyer in question has an almost totally public Facebook profile. Some highlights:

May 19th, 2016 - Posts "A new Snowden will come from the clouds."
May 26th, 2016 - Post tagged with location "Moscow, Russia"
May 30th, 2016 - "Before big US weekend, [Magnitsky case client] Browder and Associates send out fake story on [Russian businessman at the center of the case] Denis Katsyv."

Bit of context: Denis Katsyv also runs a company called Perezov. Peresov is represented by a law firm in the US, a subsidiary of which is Fusion GPS, the company which allegedly hired Christopher Steele to compile the infamous "Trump Dossier."

June 6th, 2016: Posts video of NY AG calling Trump University a "straight up fraud case."
[June 9th, 2016] - Alleged meeting with Trump associates
June 10th, 2016: Various pictures around New York City
June 14th, 2016: Posts tagged with location "Washington, DC"
June 30th, 2016: Post criticizing US Congress for sanctions against Russia
July 1st, 2016: "Liberalism is a f***ing mental disorder." - Story on Democrats' views on Obama
January 21st, 2017: Posts against the womens' march
January 25th, 2017: Praises US State Department for freezing money Obama apparently gave to Palestine (got to admit, never heard of this story)
January 31st, 2017: Calls on Sally Yates to resign (fired later in the day)
April 7th, 2017: Praises Gorsuch appointment

[Crumpets]

POTUS throws Jr. under the bus.

https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/884592109663268865

My favorite comment:

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[Crumpets]

At the risk of agreeing with EnglishPete, I wouldn't put it past the Putin regime to throw Trump under the bus by leaking a bunch of generally boring correspondences with Trump people and throwing in a few smoking guns of their own. I mean, if I were in the Kremlin, I'd be getting pretty tired of his shenanigans as well.

What doesn't make sense for this narrative, though is why Trump Jr. felt compelled to release the info. Is he really so loyal as to throw himself under the bus regardless of whether it's legit or contrived? Does anyone really think this is all part of some plan where someone will produce a less-damning version of the email and say "See it was doctored!" And somehow exonerate Trump Jr.? Really?

[Crumpets]

This has the feel of an impending statement that goes, “I, Michael Richard Pence, do solemnly swear I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States…”

You and I both know Trump isn't going to go down willingly.

In addition, there's a sizable percentage of the country who just doesn't care. Remember that poll saying that 43% of Americans trust Trump more than CNN/the media? That's going to come into play here.

That's a big difference between now and the days of Watergate (another set up, but that's another story). When Nixon was President the US had no right wing talk radio to speak of, no Murdoch press, no Washington Times, no Fox News, no Drudge, no Breitbart and of course no right wing social media. The liberal media in the US had an effective monopoly on shaping the narrative .

Lol

Really? You don't think that that the liberal media's then monopoly on shaping the narrative made a big difference to the way Watergate turned out. If liberal media had had the same monopoly on shaping the public narrative in 2016 as it had had in 1964 Trump would have lost by as big a margin as Goldwater.

You know Bob Woodward was and is a Republican, right?

[Crumpets]

Well this is interesting

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/07/11/curiousor-and-curiousor-natalia-veselnitskaya-pictured-with-obama-officals-in-dc-on-june-14th-2016/

Seems that there was collusion with foreign agents after all, just not by anyone on the Trump team.

"One blames himself. The other blames anyone and everyone but himself."
- Conservative Tree House "About Us" Section

[Crumpets]

It's war. Infowars, Breitbart, Drudge under FBI investigation for espionage.

https://www.infowars.com/breaking-democrats-call-for-criminal-investigation-of-infowars-drudge-breitbart/

I mean, even the InfoWars headline says that "Democrats are calling for investigation," not "Infowars, etc. under investigation."

[Crumpets]

Notice the "I love it," highlighted in a politically-opportune place. If only the "on the" above it was as important to the conversation...

[Crumpets]

Makes sense. The whole thing has wreaked of a set up. Even the guys at the liquor store who are as uninterested as they come in this stuff we're talking about how shady it all seemed. Don Jr's stock has really risen among the deplorables if anything.

lmao, a set up, unbelievable even for you as far as things go.

That's what the evidence is pointing to, some kind of set up. However if you've got a better theory let's hear it.

The Kremlin supports Trump's campaign, but wants to make sure he's on their page re: the Magnitsky Act. They offer a meeting with a lawyer offering info on Hillary so they can "check in" with the campaign's thoughts. Not being the brightest bulb out there, Trump Jr. accepts, and doesn't think to tell the FBI about the details of the email setting up the meeting. That's about it.

[Crumpets]

And according to the "new guy" the Trumps took printed copies from the Russians.

Why would they do that if they weren't impressed?

Which new guy? The ex-Soviet officer or the other mysterious attendee Trump Jr and Kushner forgot?

And what's the betting that this other guy was also linked to Fusion GPS and their NeverTrump/DNC paymasters  just like Veselnitskaya and Akhmetshin?

I agree that the Fusion GPS connection in this story is weird, and I posted as much when the story broke. But I think you're looking at the connection the wrong way around. Veselnitskaya's main jobs, and the two things she was most associated with before this whole meeting kerfuffle was as a lobbyist against the Magnitsky Act and as lawyer for Denis Katsyv, who was at the center of the greater Magnitsky case.

Katsyv was accused of receiving stolen funds from the Russian state and funneling them into a firm buying luxury Wall Street apartments. In 2013 he was charged by Preet Bharara for laundering money through a company called Hermitage Capital Management, which was founded and run by Bill Browder, a former ally of Putin who was blacklisted in 2005. In 2009, a lawyer working for Hermitage Capital Management died after being beaten and mistreated in prison on tax charges. The US in tern slapped Russia with the Magnitsky act, imposing sanctions against various Russian officials associated with the case.

The choice of Veselnitskaya to meet with the Trump campaign regardless of who sent her was almost indisputably related to her campaign against the Magnitsky Act. It doesn't make sense to send someone with her resume for any other reason. Trump Jr. himself said that discussion of the case took up a majority of the meeting, and he wouldn't have taken it had he known that was going to be the topic of discussion.

Hence, whoever prompted Veselnitskaya to take the meeting had to have some stake in the repeal of the Magnitsky Act, or at least making sure that the Trump campaign was in favor of its repeal. Yes, Fusion GPS is a subsidiary of a law firm which represents a company owned by Veselnitskaya's client Denis Katsyv, AND have reportedly been hired to investigate Bill Browder who campaigned for the passage the Act, but I don't see what incentive they would have to hold a meeting on repealing the Magnitsky Act.

If, as you say, Fusion GPS is part of an anti-Trump conspiracy and helped organize the meeting to entrap the Trump campaign, why would they bother sending a lawyer at the center of a prominent case, who then talked about that case for the majority of the meeting, when none of that discussion would be remotely damning to the Trump campaign? If the story "Trump campaign met with lawyer to discuss Magnitsky Case" broke on the eve of election day, it would have hardly been a blip on the news radar.

Sure you could say the meeting was just a formality and the real trap was the email to Trump Jr, but then there's the question of "what if he just did what anyone would expect him to do and go straight to the FBI?" Where would Fusion GPS be then? And if they sent the email just to entrap Trump Jr, and didn't expect there to actually be a real meeting, why, when he said yes, would they send a lawyer who has no information to give them, can easily be tied to their company, and one who really doesn't advance their alleged anti-Trump agenda in any way? Why not just send some guy in a suit with a tape recorder and ask them damning questions à la Project Veritas? Why have the meeting at all if they've already got what they wanted and can get away scot free?

Now, there is an interesting side story to all of this, as I mentioned in paragraph 4, which is that in 2015 and into 2016, Fusion GPS was hired to investigate Bill Browder. According to Wikipedia citing Fox News, "During the course of the case, Browder claimed that Fusion GPS had previously been hired to undertake a pro-Russia campaign to aimed at stopping passage of the Magnitsky Act."

So in the end we have this chain: Fusion GPS --investigates--> Bill Browder --secured passage of--> Magnitsky Act --campaigned against by--> Natalia Veselnitskaya --almost certainly involved in hiring of--> repeat

Hence the question of whether the Trump Dossier might have some of the Kremlin's fingerprints on it, and why I don't give it a whole lot of credence unless Mueller's investigation can independently back it up. Which then begs the question of why the Kremlin might hypothetically want the Trump Dossier to have been compiled, but that's a whole new can of worms.

[Crumpets]

lol:

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That last line is awfully ironic, given that, when Putin offered to renew the New START Treaty, Trump turned him down.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/09/trump-putin-call-nuclear-deal-new-start-treaty

[Crumpets]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/24/politics/jared-kushner-russians-statement/index.html

Kushner: "I did not collude."

"The people of the United States need to know if the President's son-in-law colluded. I did not collude. I inherited everything I've got."

"But I want to say one thing to the American people. I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again: I did not collude with that woman, Miss Veselnitskaya. I was never told to lie, not a single time; never. These allegations are false. And I need to go back to work for the American people. Thank you."