Midwest Public School Abolishment Proposition

[CheeseWhiz]

...a.k.a. the ILV Will Never Speak to Me Again Proposition

So, here's the proposition:

1. All Public School funding will be cut by the year 2007.


I could see why Public Schools might be needed before, but not now.  Anything and everything you need to know is on the internet, and if you really want your kids in school, you can send them to a private one.  Those too poor to afford internet services or private schools can go to their local Library System and pick up books on subjects they’re interested in. I know I’ll come under fire for this by just about everyone imaginable possible, but I hope I can get at least two other Midwesterners who feel the same way.

I also think this will greatly benefit our schools.  Schools without competition will almost definitely do poorly, while with competition it gives the parents a choice, so if their school is doing poorly, they can move to another one.

[CheeseWhiz]

Come on, I need two signatures before December 1st to get it on the December ballot!

[CheeseWhiz]

Yeah, I really like your second idea.  The first one's okay, but I like the second one better.  How big of a chunk should we funnel?

[CheeseWhiz]

I'll update this as I get more info:

STATE PUBLIC SCHOOL BUDGETS:

Colorado:
Iowa:
Kansas:
Minnesota:
Montana: 767 million (04-05,) 811 million (06-07)
Nebraska:
North Dakota:
Oklahoma:
South Dakota:
Wyoming:
TOTAL:


STATE LIBRARY BUDGETS:

Colorado:
Iowa:
Kansas:
Minnesota:
Montana:
Nebraska:
North Dakota:
Oklahoma:
South Dakota:
Wyoming:
TOTAL:

[CheeseWhiz]

That is one of the most horrible proposition's I've ever seen. I urge anyone with sense to vote against this!

*shrug* They probably will.

Anyway, I'm working on some revisions at the moment...  But it will still cut Public School funding.

[CheeseWhiz]

Maybe I’ll just go with arbitrary numbers
 
1. All Public School funding will be cut by the year 2007.
2. 45% of that money will go to the State Library System in order to create learning centers open to the public. 
3.  Teachers and Librarians will be trained as facilitators and field experts will conduct specialized classes as a public service.
4. The other 55% of the money will go to balancing the Regional Budget.

[CheeseWhiz]

W00T!!!

[CheeseWhiz]

YAY!

[CheeseWhiz]

I put up the Wiki page for it.

[CheeseWhiz]

That is one of the most horrible proposition's I've ever seen. I urge anyone with sense to vote against this!

Also remember, this is Federal money supporting our Public School system.  If we can get a surplus out of this, then you'll save and we'll ultimately help reduce the Federal deficit.  It will only do a little, and it's a big if, but still.

[CheeseWhiz]

Thank you, Mr. Governor.

Did I do it right?  I sure hope I did...

I hope the people of the Midwest give this a fair chance and read it, not just vote no because of it's title.  Not saying that anyone who opposes this is dumb or nothing, I just hope people look over it before making up their mind based on the title.

[CheeseWhiz]

On a personal level, I am very much opposed to this measure.
Education is crucial to the well-being of society. It is in all our interests that our citizens are educated to a high level, if only so that we can be economically competitive in the jobs market. Education is good for long term economic growth, I sincerely doubt anyobe here will or can effectively deny this. To implement this measure would lead to a great diminishing of our status as a society. Indeed economics is only one aspect of the argument, and I hope to put forward further arguments against what I consider to be a seriously backward step.
I will do all I can to prevent this measure.

And people can't be educated without Public Schools?  There will still be Private Schools, the Internet and a new sort of Public School that this bill creates through Libraries.  We don't need Public Schools to ensure an educated society.

[CheeseWhiz]

That's why I'm giving them two years: They can see it coming and hopefully build more Private Schools to meet the demand.

Internet works far better than Private Schools, IMO.  Let's take a Private School test on, say, Biology.  This kid taking the test is a math whiz, and he hopes to go into the field of computers.  He doesn't give a hill of beans about Biology, but he has to learn about it so he won't get an F.  Now, he's wasting valuable time when he could have been learning about Computers.  Granted, he needs back-up skills, but he can learn about those by himself on his free time.  I wish to become a Film Director, but I think I know enough to become a Politician, an Architect, a Carpenter or anything in the field of Geography.  No one forced me to learn any of that, that's the stuff that I wanted to learn, and most of it I got on my free time on the internet.  When I'm forced to learn something I forget it after I don't need to know it anymore.

What about our Library idea?  People can learn what they want to learn from there.  I find this far superior to being forced to learn something you may or may not want to know all day long, until you're bored to tears.  IMO, we aren't really getting rid of the Public Schools, we're replacing it with something that is much better.

[CheeseWhiz]

Securing their future:  I don't understand, are you saying we cannot learn without Schools?  What you need to know, you will learn on the way.  What you will need to learn for your future, you'll learn because you want to learn it.

Keeping kids off the street: Maybe parents should take the responsibility?  For those who have both parents at work, they can arrange to leave them with friend.  Also, I never proposed we pay to put everyone in Private schools.

Why not?  Given the materials, can't everyone learn on their own?  For those who can't, we have "field experts" come to the Libraries.  This would be someone who actually does what they're teaching.  That is solved very simply:  Build more Libraries.  If there is more demand than supply, you get more supply.

I think they can go to the Library just as easily as they can go to a Public School.  What's the difference?

Well, it's one of the things I've always wanted to cut.

[CheeseWhiz]

I just find it hilarious how you guys are trying to persuade people that this is a good idea.

Actually, I'm just defending my position.

[CheeseWhiz]

I know this is a controversial comment, but I think school might be a big part of what causes that problem.

Of course kids want to go off and spend time with their buddies if they’ve been learning all day…  Wouldn’t you want some time off?

I think if someone isn’t forced into it, they will want to learn.  I know I’m sounding incredibly stupid to you guys, so let me clear up one thing:  I have nothing wrong with schools, not really anyway.  I’m just saying that in my personal experience and opinion, children who are dedicated to learning what they are being thought will learn 5 times faster than someone who isn’t, and they’ll hold onto it for life.

[CheeseWhiz]

I put up the Wiki page for it.

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WTF? I know it would only help to convince voters that they're voting for another Birthday Cake program, but I'm not certain that's what should be done .

Haha...  Shhh!  What are you trying to do, ruin my plans?

I copied some stuff of the Birthday Cake Proposition because I wasn't sure how to do some things on the Wiki

[CheeseWhiz]

I just find it hilarious how you guys are trying to persuade people that this is a good idea.

Actually, I'm just defending my position.

By defending it you're trying to convince other people you're right so they'll vote for it. (Which you're not)

So I'm not supposed to defend myself?  I am simply trying to address the concerns of the opposition.  Do you have a problem with that?  Would you rather I ignore you?  You’re not making much sense here, MJ.

[CheeseWhiz]

I think if someone isn’t forced into it, they will want to learn.  I know I’m sounding incredibly stupid to you guys, so let me clear up one thing:  I have nothing wrong with schools, not really anyway.  I’m just saying that in my personal experience and opinion, children who are dedicated to learning what they are being thought will learn 5 times faster than someone who isn’t, and they’ll hold onto it for life.

Why would someone want to learn something that appears to have no relevance to their life?  Children aren't going to understand the point of learning about history, English, math, etc. at a very young age (I know I sure didn't), and by the time they do understand, they'll be very far behind those who went through public schooling.

I don’t understand why it matters when they learn.  They can learn when they need to, or want to.  If they don’t understand the relevance of it, then they obviously don’t need it yet.  I think it’s a much more enjoyable experience to teach somebody something when they want to learn it.

[CheeseWhiz]

What I'm saying is that you're trying to defend a proposition that you want to pass (it's right for you do do that because you want it to be passed) that all but three people seem to think is a horrible idea.

I really don't know why you can't get this. I'm saying that you're trying to make something that will horribly fail seem good so people will vote for it.

I know I’m in the minority, but is that any reason to give up?

Listen, I’d really love to figure out why this is such a bad idea, but I think everything you’ve come up with so far will either stay the same or improve because of this.  It’s you who are wasting your time trying to convince me it’s a bad idea, if anything.  That said, you don’t have to stop, I really like hearing your concerns, (as long as your not flaming,) and trying to cover them.

[CheeseWhiz]

Understanding is also greatly aided by demonstration - science experiments would become a thing of the past, and therefore the science education of students would be drastically damaged, perhaps wiping out an entire generation of science students.

This can, (and will,) all be moved to the Libraries.

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How is it any harder to go to School and than to go to the Library?

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You aren’t getting rid of Collages, we aren't even entirely getting rid of schools, for crying out loud!

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I severely doubt it...  But you are entitled to your opinion, of course.

[CheeseWhiz]

I don’t understand why it matters when they learn.  They can learn when they need to, or want to.  If they don’t understand the relevance of it, then they obviously don’t need it yet.  I think it’s a much more enjoyable experience to teach somebody something when they want to learn it.

It took me 14 years to learn all of the math that I know today and there is still more that I could learn if I so chose.  Imagine what would happen if I decided I wanted to go into physics right now but had never even learned the basics of arithmetic.  You can't just say "okay, now I will learn this" and then have it happen.  Many, many things take years to cover, and if a person hasn't even learned the basics for something that he or she wants to master after coming to an awareness about the big picture in life, it can hardly be imagined that that person could ever compete with one who started at an early age.

Here's a question: what is the problem with public schools as they are today?

Hmmm…  It took me about a week to learn the basic of math, and about a couple of years to learn typing.  I know I may not be the best at punctuations here, but that’s because it’s a Forum and I don’t really care that much.

That said, how much math do you know?  I’m just curious.

You can’t just say “okay, now I want to go into this field” and have it happen, either.  Everything I love today sparks from interests that I had 5 years ago.  If I just decided I want to do _______ I don’t think I’d really love working everyday.  I have to love what I’m doing, or I don’t really see a purpose in doing it.

[CheeseWhiz]

I'm in one of the top ten public schools in the state (more in the middle but I could be wrong). More people graduate out of my school than most everywhere else in the state. Now if we didn't have to go to school and could go to the library to learn things only about 1-3% of the people would do that. They'd stay home and have fun and then education would totally be destroyed as would any businesses throughout the country. So in one of the best public schools in the state hardly anybody would learn independently. Does that tell you something? Yes and I urge the people to vote against this when it comes up for a vote.

How long do you really think they’d sit around and play video games before they’d want to do something?  I’m almost sure it wouldn’t last a month, if that long, before they wanted to go to the Library and study.

Think about it:  If they’re too lazy to learn anything when they’re 12, then I believe they’ll probably be too lazy to work when they’re 32.

[CheeseWhiz]

How is it any harder to go to School and than to go to the Library?

Schools are a structured environment in which students are taught everything that they need to know about a subject and in which a student can reasonably expect to obtain a well-rounded base of knowledge that can then be specialized once the person gets to college.

A library, on the other hand, is just a disorganized array of information, and the chance of a student getting a fully adequate, well-rounded base of knowledge through independent study are much more slim.

Well, anything they need in that “well-rounded base of knowledge” they will encounter in real life.  School is supposed to set you up for real life, while college secures your future.  We aren’t doing anything to colleges, and if school sets you up for RL, then you will sooner or later encounter everything you really need to know for RL before the age of 12.

[CheeseWhiz]

Understanding is also greatly aided by demonstration - science experiments would become a thing of the past, and therefore the science education of students would be drastically damaged, perhaps wiping out an entire generation of science students.

This can, (and will,) all be moved to the Libraries.

The suggestion that science experiments which should be conducted in purpose designed laboratories could be conducted in libraries is ridiculous.

Even if you were willing to attach these labs to libraries it would cost millions upon billions of dollars as a down investment.

I’m sorry, I’m tired.  You’re right, that would be pretty dumb   Okay, this is what we’d do instead:

Bill is a professional scientist.  Jessica would like to learn Chemistry (Bill specializes in that and has a professional lab built for it.)  Bill comes to the Library as a “field expert.”  Jessica meets Bill and he makes an appointment to show her his lab.  He can not only teach you Chemistry, but he can also help her get work in the field.

I’m getting tired, fast.  Can
A) Everyone slow down just a little.  I appreciate the questions, but you aren’t going to change my mind.  I’m convinced people don’t need Public School to have a well educated society.
B) Daniel and Dubya help me out?