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Author Topic: Never Forgive, Never Forget  (Read 1242 times)
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« on: April 19, 2007, 10:12:52 AM »

dude, come on, the Feds made mistakes, but the Branch Davidians are responsible for the loss of life.

Koresh claiming that he was Jesus can be dismissed with one passage:

Mat 24:23-27 If anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time. So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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Posts: 18,212
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2007, 01:40:54 PM »

Koresh was a fraud but that doesn't mean I support the burning to death of his followers.

Neither do I.  That is why Koresh should never have gotten in a "stand-off" with officials to begin with.  Koresh refused to surrender for weeks.  He refused to evacuate the children during the entire stand-off.  He refused for weeks the orders of authorities to open his doors.

The stand-off was result of Koresh not following the orders of authorities.  The stand-off was the result of Koresh not allowing the court system to sort out justice. 

However incompetent the ATF was, the responsibility of the loss of life lies at the feet of David Koresh.

Your position is indefensible.
 
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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Posts: 18,212
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2007, 01:45:23 PM »

The American Terrorist Front was responsible for setting the buildings on fire, however.

How, exactly?
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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Posts: 18,212
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2007, 02:00:02 PM »

The American Terrorist Front was responsible for setting the buildings on fire, however.

How, exactly?

By throwing incidiaries into a wooden structure.

If the authorities did not intentionally set fire to the compound, then any fire resulting from the assault is the fault of David Koresh.  Once the four ATF agents were killed in the initial raid, David Koresh had the obligation to surrender and allow the courts to run their course.  He chose instead to disregard authority for weeks on end, intentionally placing everyone inside at risk.

If one decides to maintain a stand-off with authorities, for whatever reason, and does not evacuate the innocent, then he is basically taking hostages and using them as human shields.
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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Posts: 18,212
United States


« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2007, 02:21:34 PM »

The subsequent court ruled that the surviving Davidians were acting in self-defense when they killed the four ATF agents.

Fine.  Then after a higher authority arrives and a peaceful surrender has been agreed to, then you surrender and allows the courts to run their course.

---

The people inside were staying of their own volition--you may argue that the children weren't, but their caretakers made the decision.

Caretakers do NOT have the right to make the decision to keep children in harms way.  Period.

---

I doubt Koresh was forcing anyone to stay--although the ATF often threw flash-bang grenades at people who did come out, scaring them back inside.

Roll Eyes

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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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Posts: 18,212
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2007, 03:00:44 PM »
« Edited: April 20, 2007, 12:58:41 AM by jmfcst »

[Boris, in a thread he entitled to incite non-forgiveness, spewing a bunch of nonsense justifying an outlaw who, claiming to be God, never subjected himself to the authority of men]

19 children along with some women had no problem leaving the site safely within a couple of days after the siege began

11 others were later ordered to leave by Koresh

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