Gillibrand withdraws support for anti-BDS bill (user search)
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  Gillibrand withdraws support for anti-BDS bill (search mode)
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Author Topic: Gillibrand withdraws support for anti-BDS bill  (Read 4256 times)
SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« on: August 03, 2017, 05:22:04 PM »

This bill doesn't criminalize free speech. This is another instance of hysteria. The same people who want to censor free speech when they don't like it are the ones attacking this bill. Adorable.



Prof. Eugene Kontorovich does a good job of explaining why it is not a violation of free speech: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/07/27/israel-anti-boycott-bill-does-not-violate-free-speech/?utm_term=.a1e5e4d1c946




Here are the highlights:

Kontorovich's piece first:


1. He claims that there already is a law on the books that is directly relevant to this topic and conversation: 1977 Export Administration Act. This law was made in reaction to the Arab Boycott of Israel, though the law can apply to other countries as it doesn't just explicitly say it is only relevant to Israel.

The new bill just clarifies what defines a foreign boycott is and specifies punishments for violations of that law. This law has been held up for decades and it was even pointed out that "refusing to do business is not an inherently expressive activity, as the Supreme Court held in Rumsfeld v. FAIR." (https://www.oyez.org/cases/2005/04-1152)

Also, this bill does nothing close to what the Anti-Israel side is claiming it does. The 1977 law was never used to punish activists who simply state that they support a boycott or that they oppose Israel or any other country. The 1977 law explicitly states that "the many regulations enacted pursuant to the law already define 'support' to be limited to 'certain specified actions' that go well beyond merely 'speech' support."

An example of this:


"However, if a KKK member places his constitutionally protected expression of racial hatred within the context of a commercial transaction — for example, by publishing a “For Sale” notice that says that he will not sell his house to Jews or African Americans — it loses its constitutional protection. The Fair Housing Act forbids publishing such discriminatory notices, and few doubt the constitutionality of the Fair Housing Act."

This is 100% relevant to what BDS aims to do by supporting foreign-backed boycotts. More importantly, BDS has engaged in these actions on college campuses (ex. putting eviction notices on Jewish student's dorms and apartments at NYU: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pro-palestine-nyu-students-serve-fake-eviction-notices-jewish-undergrads-article-1.1768087)


More importantly, irrelevant to Israel as a whole, the ACLU's misguided opposition to this bill, if legally successful, could void ALL American sanctions on countries like Cuba, Iran, Russia and N. Korea:

"If refusing to do business with a country is protected speech because it could send a message of opposition to that country’s policies, doing business would also be protected speech. Thus, anyone barred from doing business with Iran, Cuba or Sudan would be free to do so if they said it was a message of support for the revolution, or opposition to U.S. policy, or whatever."


Prof. Eugene Volokh also does a good job of explaining why in this own article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/07/25/theres-no-first-amendment-right-to-engage-in-anti-israel-boycotts-but-there-is-a-right-to-call-for-such-boycotts/?utm_term=.2a69566c29f9

This article goes into some more detail about what is constitutionally permissible and how the ACLU's opposition could have unintended consequences.
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2017, 08:16:44 PM »

LOL at people supporting this bill on here. You know this bill is against your first amendment right? Your forefathers would be ashamed.

LOL it's just easier for you to ignore my post and make stupid statements. I wrote a whole post on why I support this bill and why I, and two legal scholars, think it is constitutional. You don't have to agree, but there is a legitimate argument to be had on this subject.

You are not automatically right just because you think you are.
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2017, 12:08:07 AM »

LOL at people supporting this bill on here. You know this bill is against your first amendment right? Your forefathers would be ashamed.

LOL it's just easier for you to ignore my post and make stupid statements. I wrote a whole post on why I support this bill and why I, and two legal scholars, think it is constitutional. You don't have to agree, but there is a legitimate argument to be had on this subject.

You are not automatically right just because you think you are.

Also, the Intercept lied about what it actually does, as they do.

Of course, The Intercept, The Alternet, Mondoweiss, Electronic Intifada are all the same. They lie, they distort and they misinform.

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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2017, 06:13:08 PM »

That's great, but I see no one has bothered to respond to the actual legal language of this bill, to the legal language of the 1977 Export Administration Act (and the cases that upheld that law, which does virtually the same thing as this bill). All of which I posted into this thread. All of the links I listed are from Law Professors, not jokes like The Intercept.

The opponents of this bill will talk optics, the supporters (should, if they are smart) talk about the legal language and legal precedent.


And that's cool that you don't know anyone "outside of this forum" who supports this bill, but that is completely irrelevant to whether or not the bill is constitutional. Just like it's equally irrelevant that virtually everyone I know outside of this forum supports this bill.

I can't speak for other Atlas supporters of this bill, but I will not be shamed by blanket statements that "no one else supports it" or that "its evil" or "unconstitutional." Virtually no one has provided a step-by-step explanation on how it is unconstitutional.

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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2017, 06:14:59 PM »

The JTA link posted by Sweet Meteor O' Death 2016 seems to be a better opposing piece to this bill. I do, however, disagree that this bill isn't needed.

How many resolutions, bills and laws are there that state things over and over again that may not present a current threat?
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