SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

20 pages in...5 hours.
Impressive work, Atlas!

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

19 pages in...5 hours.
Impressive work, Atlas!

Congrats, you made the 20th page!

Thanks!
I'm the one millionth visitor!

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

People think the Dems can hold the Senate.... (new here?)

Better chance of Manchin passing a federal abortion protections bill in the lame duck.

No chance because no one will break the fillibuster

Regardless Manchin is Anti-Choice. Collins and Murkowski might vote for it but not to break the fillibuster

Manchin is whatever his backers need him to be.

I would not be shocked if Manchin turned out to have quasi-moderate-hero personal stances on abortion, deep down. Though it's unlikely we'll ever know.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

If you listen to ‘movement conservatives’ the original sin was the appointment of Souter.

It was after that they realised they needed to essentially create republican appointed justices in a test tube.

Even now, there are absolutely huge numbers of careerists who just pose as a potential "firm conservative" just so that they might get a SCOTUS appointment.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

We're so close. Maybe we can hit 50 pages by the weekend!

Weekend is likely lowballing how quickly that could come if anything!

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

THIS DOESN'T HELP, PLEASE SHUT THE F[INKS] UP WITH THIS TYPE OF LANGUAGE AT A TIME LIKE THIS

https://twitter.com/StateRepHong/status/1521298873859334145

Left-leaning people on Twitter can be among the most out of touch people in this country on some issues.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I swear this site has a obnoxious pocket of posters with a deeply unhealthy distain for trans people.

This forum is probably more liberal on those issues then the general public

True.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Amogus

Imposter?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Very telling that a thread about an imminent threat to women's rights is immediately highjacked by people complaining about some loser in Minneapolis

I get the complaint, but “immediately”? My brother in Christ this is page 35 of the thread.

This thread actually was powered for a very long time on the power of angry feelings about abortion, for a very long time. To some extent, it still is.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

THE CONCERN IS APPROACHING LEVELS NEVER THOUGHT POSSIBLE

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1521490781638385664?s=20&t=QMKsb7TR_4MlCg1...

F*** off Susan you completely obnoxious political animal. No one is fooled by your game anymore. Well, other than the 2018 Maine voters

2020

Blame Sara Gideon, the worst Democratic Senate campaign in the country.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

THE CONCERN IS APPROACHING LEVELS NEVER THOUGHT POSSIBLE

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1521490781638385664?s=20&t=QMKsb7TR_4MlCg1...

F*** off Susan you completely obnoxious political animal. No one is fooled by your game anymore. Well, other than the 2018 Maine voters

2020

Blame Sara Gideon, the worst Democratic Senate campaign in the country.

Do you realize the Tara Reade and Hunter Biden had an effect on swing female voters, users like to blame the State by state candidates but not Biden, don't forget the stars Reade story came in April a mnth after Super Tuesday and it took a mnth for Biden to come out against it and we had other females in the J especially lose close races like in IA, stop blaming Gideon it was Biden


Also Trump did well in the last debate and won that debate and unemployment dwindled from 9/7, I was on the bus on EDay and WWC voters said Trump will win Unemployment is dwindling

Oh, I'm not ignoring all the other factors. I'm just saying Gideon deserves the majority of the blame; she is the single biggest reason Susan Collins returned to office with another term.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Amogus

Imposter?

ඞ

The fact you posted this is sus. At least you aren't a red avatar...I think...

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://twitter.com/DouglasKBlair/status/1523095574156742657
The people who leaked this need to be arrested and throw in prison for years

What law did they break?

Supreme Court opinions are not classified. At worst, it's a breach of protocol.

Also, I'm getting rather sick of arguments about the personal comfort of people in prominent positions of public trust. I'm far more interested in the impact their actions have on millions of people than whether Justice Kavanaugh gets a good night's sleep.

They leaked their PERSONAL ADRESSES

Honestly, if that is indeed something they did, #LockThemUp. They deserve to rot in jail for all I care.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Releasing addresses of Supreme Court justices is a step gone too far. Someone ought to go to jail for this, because this is not at all acceptable. It doesn't matter if a conservative did it or a liberal did it. This is not a legitimate political activity anymore. The leaking of the opinion is problematic; but to go this far is to forfeit sympathy.

We ought to set a harsh precedent for something like this. I don't care if people feel unjustly persecuted because of this, though I hope no one does.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I was under the impression that it's illegal to publicly release the address of a government official with intention to pressure them into doing a specific thing. Punishing someone for this specific thing, in my view, would not be a flagrant First Amendment violation.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Releasing addresses of Supreme Court justices is a step gone too far. Someone ought to go to jail for this, because this is not at all acceptable. It doesn't matter if a conservative did it or a liberal did it. This is not a legitimate political activity anymore. The leaking of the opinion is problematic; but to go this far is to forfeit sympathy.

We ought to set a harsh precedent for something like this. I don't care if people feel unjustly persecuted because of this, though I hope no one does.

So just be clear here, you think people in positions of public trust should be immunized from the consequences of their actions?

We aren’t talking about a Nerodist campaign of assassinations here, we are talking about protests in front of a public official’s house.

There seems to be a general idea going around, see also Civility, Bipartisanship, etc, that the important principle of politics is that politicians are personal comfortable and get along with one another. Which is a fundamentally backwards and illiberal idea, essentially turning public officials into a noble class who aren’t accountable to the nation writ large but only their peers.

The protest itself is clearly legal. But the intent of pressuring that seems innate to the releasing of this information was not.

Of course, our intelligence community should watch these protests closely all the same, as I think the justices are entitled to their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. I do not think we should prevent official, peaceful protests outside government officials' homes (though I find them distasteful, personally). I have sizable sympathies to a broad reading of what is protected by the First Amendment. But I do not think that this leak in fact is really protected by the First Amendment, given the circumstances.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Releasing addresses of Supreme Court justices is a step gone too far. Someone ought to go to jail for this, because this is not at all acceptable. It doesn't matter if a conservative did it or a liberal did it. This is not a legitimate political activity anymore. The leaking of the opinion is problematic; but to go this far is to forfeit sympathy.

We ought to set a harsh precedent for something like this. I don't care if people feel unjustly persecuted because of this, though I hope no one does.

So just be clear here, you think people in positions of public trust should be immunized from the consequences of their actions?

We aren’t talking about a Nerodist campaign of assassinations here, we are talking about protests in front of a public official’s house.

There seems to be a general idea going around, see also Civility, Bipartisanship, etc, that the important principle of politics is that politicians are personal comfortable and get along with one another. Which is a fundamentally backwards and illiberal idea, essentially turning public officials into a noble class who aren’t accountable to the nation writ large but only their peers.

The protest itself is clearly legal. But the intent of pressuring that seems innate to the releasing of this information was not.

Of course, our intelligence community should watch these protests closely all the same, as I think the justices are entitled to their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. I do not think we should prevent official protests outside government officials' homes. I have sizable sympathies to a broad reading of what is protected by the First Amendment. But I do not think that this leak in fact is really protected by the First Amendment, given the circumstances.

If any of these happened individually then it’s one thing but the combination of :

- leaking a draft ruling

- leaking the home addresses of the justices

- protesters descending at their addresses


Makes it clear it’s an intimidation campaign

The protesters descending onto the home of Chief Justice Roberts was clearly inevitable anyway.

To be entirely clear, from my POV anyway, this would have been unacceptable regardless of the politics of the leakers involved. I don't care for their party affiliation, feelings on abortion (meh who cares), or other characteristics.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I'd really prefer debating someone with critical thinking skills higher than the average sea sponge.

I'd prefer debating with someone who holds respect for the existence of a judicial branch that is not, as Roberts so eloquently said, "not to be intimated".

That was not directed towards you, as you can see that my post was made 5 seconds after yours.

Either way, the Supreme Court has already lost its legitimacy. This right-wing majority was conceived out of an effort to have certain Justices that would only rule a certain way. Don't pretend that this majority was looking at the Constitution or the facts presented. This is the crowning achievement of the decades-long effort to effect the elimination of our once-independent judiciary.

Grave apologies then.
I misread your intentions.
It felt like you were responding more to my points than OSR's.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I do not know if releasing someone's address is a crime or not in the US; but I will say that when inevitably a bunch of trumpists start protesting at Pelosi's house or whatever for some dumb reason the people using the "this is legitimate protest" line will use it again.

I don't think that "escraches" as we'd call them are a goor or arguably even a legitimate form of protest. Of course this is up for debate and I won't claim there is a right or wrong answer, but if the reverse happens with far right trumpists protesting at the house of Dem politicians, people will have a right to ask for consistency.

Interesting. I didn't know there was a specific English word for something like this.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I do not know if releasing someone's address is a crime or not in the US; but I will say that when inevitably a bunch of trumpists start protesting at Pelosi's house or whatever for some dumb reason the people using the "this is legitimate protest" line will use it again.

I don't think that "escraches" as we'd call them are a good or arguably even a legitimate form of protest. Of course this is up for debate and I won't claim there is a right or wrong answer, but if the reverse happens with far right trumpists protesting at the house of Dem politicians, people will have a right to ask for consistency.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisby_v._Schultz

Governments are allowed to prohibit picketing a specific residence. Thats the law in Virginia.

Does this mean that the pickets outside John Roberts' house could be illegal? Iirc, he was a resident of the state of Virginia.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I do not know if releasing someone's address is a crime or not in the US; but I will say that when inevitably a bunch of trumpists start protesting at Pelosi's house or whatever for some dumb reason the people using the "this is legitimate protest" line will use it again.

I don't think that "escraches" as we'd call them are a good or arguably even a legitimate form of protest. Of course this is up for debate and I won't claim there is a right or wrong answer, but if the reverse happens with far right trumpists protesting at the house of Dem politicians, people will have a right to ask for consistency.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisby_v._Schultz

Governments are allowed to prohibit picketing a specific residence. Thats the law in Virginia.

Does this mean that the pickets outside John Roberts' house could be illegal? Iirc, he was a resident of the state of Virginia.

If their police and commonwealths attorneys are willing to enforce it. The first bill i ever wrote that got introduced in the state legislature was an attempt to modify it that got tabled.

It would seem that Jason Miyares would likely have interest in enforcing this, if it was his decision to do so.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://thehill.com/news/senate/3482047-senate-eyes-quick-passage-of-security-for-supreme-court-family-members/

Senate is planning on passing supreme court protection. Smart move.

This should get quick passage through Congress.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://thehill.com/news/senate/3482047-senate-eyes-quick-passage-of-security-for-supreme-court-family-members/

Senate is planning on passing supreme court protection. Smart move.

This should get quick passage through Congress.

I just don't understand why this bill wasn't rushed through the Senate at light speed when Judge Salas' son was killed and her husband wounded almost two years ago. Can't quite put my finger on it....

The craziness of the Trump years passed by so quickly. Could you speak into more detail into this?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://thehill.com/news/senate/3482047-senate-eyes-quick-passage-of-security-for-supreme-court-family-members/

Senate is planning on passing supreme court protection. Smart move.

This should get quick passage through Congress.

I just don't understand why this bill wasn't rushed through the Senate at light speed when Judge Salas' son was killed and her husband wounded almost two years ago. Can't quite put my finger on it....

The craziness of the Trump years passed by so quickly. Could you speak into more detail into this?

Sure! So in July of 2020, a guy disguised a delivery person came to the door of New Jersey Judge Esther Salas and shot her 20 year old son to death and shot her husband three times, who survived.

From an ABC article on the shooting about a year later:

"The alleged gunman was found dead one day later with a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He was identified by authorities as Den Hollander, who appeared once in Salas’ courtroom months before the attack. The FBI said he had a detailed dossier on Salas and her family as well as the names of several other people they believe Hollander wanted to target, including at least one other judge. In an autobiography published on his personal website, Hollander also disparaged Salas' ethnicity.

Now, one year after his death, which also marks just days before what would've been their son’s 21st birthday, Salas and her husband are advocating for increased protection for federal judges against threats.

Last week, Sen. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., Sen. Cory Booker, D-N.J., and Rep. Mikie Sherrill, D-N.J., reintroduced a bill called the Daniel Anderl Judicial Security and Privacy Act of 2021, which would “bolster efforts to protect the federal judiciary and safeguard the personally identifiable information of federal judges and their immediate families.” "

Salas is an Obama appointee. The legislation referenced above was passed out of the Judiciary Committee, but I'm struggling to find any news of it having achieved final passage and being signed into law.

When this attack happened, McConnell was Majority Leader. I just don't understand how a democratic judge's family being murdered and injured is apparently less of a priority than a couple trump-appointed SCOTUS judges who perjured themselves in their confirmation hearings being made to feel slightly uncomfortable at their homes b/c they are going to take away a right from women. Of course, there are no buffer zones around abortion clinics - or the homes of abortion clinic employees! - as there are around the Supreme Court.

edit:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/2340/text

edit:

Still hasn't passed, and Judge Salas is renewing calls for it to be in light of the Senate's absolutely mad rush to shield conservative snowflakes from any kind of criticism

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/judge-whose-son-was-killed-calls-for-enactment-of-security-bill

There's too little to extrapolate what Mitch felt about the legislation back then, either way. But I agree completely that it should be brought forward now. How Mitch responds now likely will be quite telling.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

FWIW Clarence Thomas saying "we should also overturn these other decisions that I dissented in" is hardly surprising or out of character for him. Most justices consider that sort of thing to be poor form and they try to address only the case at hand but he's never cared.

You'll notice he didn't mention Loving v. Virginia.  I wonder why not...

Because the basis of that was the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause and not the "right to privacy". It's not really a related case at all.

Mind-boggling that anyone would seriously entertain the idea Clarence Thomas, happily married to his white wife, would ever seriously propose the reversal of Loving vs Virginia. It's an utterly hysterical suggestion.