TX: ERCOT failing because...Hot Temperatures (user search)
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Author Topic: TX: ERCOT failing because...Hot Temperatures  (Read 1337 times)
President Punxsutawney Phil
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« on: June 14, 2021, 10:22:02 PM »

Rapid population growth is an underrated factor in this occurring. TX's population has doubled over the span of the past 40 years.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2021, 12:20:27 AM »

Rapid population growth is an underrated factor in this occurring. TX's population has doubled over the span of the past 40 years.

40 years is beyond any reasonable objective amount of time necessary to develop a public power grid to deal with population growth. The Republican party has literally shot Public Utilities in the foot, then reloaded and shot them in the head the last 10 to 20 years.
Could you point to any examples of Republican sabotaging of the utility system in Texas?
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2021, 12:37:06 AM »

Rapid population growth is an underrated factor in this occurring. TX's population has doubled over the span of the past 40 years.

40 years is beyond any reasonable objective amount of time necessary to develop a public power grid to deal with population growth. The Republican party has literally shot Public Utilities in the foot, then reloaded and shot them in the head the last 10 to 20 years.
Could you point to any examples of Republican sabotaging of the utility system in Texas?

THe creation of a useless state grid that's barely connected to anything else, for the sole purpose of virtue-signalling about how TEXAS!!!!™ doesn't need no stinkin' federal interference because it's TEXAS!!!!™. And what good did quadrupling down on good ol' TEXAS!!!!™ do for em, other than making it almost impossible to import electricity when they need it, and allowing those incredible privatized electric companies to hike prices by 180 times?
Actually, Texas has been able to push the envelope on renewables in part because it has its own electricity grid. And hiking of prices, where it is happening, is not "sabotaging the power grid". Do you and other people fingering the TX GOP even understand the TX power grid and the complex milieu of things in relation to its management or are you just cluelessly trying to advance a generic "GOP bad" talking point without even putting a real argument in favor?
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2021, 12:52:00 AM »

Rapid population growth is an underrated factor in this occurring. TX's population has doubled over the span of the past 40 years.

40 years is beyond any reasonable objective amount of time necessary to develop a public power grid to deal with population growth. The Republican party has literally shot Public Utilities in the foot, then reloaded and shot them in the head the last 10 to 20 years.
Could you point to any examples of Republican sabotaging of the utility system in Texas?

THe creation of a useless state grid that's barely connected to anything else, for the sole purpose of virtue-signalling about how TEXAS!!!!™ doesn't need no stinkin' federal interference because it's TEXAS!!!!™. And what good did quadrupling down on good ol' TEXAS!!!!™ do for em, other than making it almost impossible to import electricity when they need it, and allowing those incredible privatized electric companies to hike prices by 180 times?
Actually, Texas has been able to push the envelope on renewables in part because it has its own electricity grid. And hiking of prices, where it is happening, is not "sabotaging the power grid". Do you and other people fingering the TX GOP even understand the TX power grid and the complex milieu of things in relation to its management or are you just cluelessly trying to advance a generic "GOP bad" talking point without even putting a real argument in favor?

Unsure what sort of "pushing the envelope" leads to power outages for millions because you can't pull energy from any other grids. This is something literally everyone else learned how to do with interconnects. Texas just has a severe case of special snowflake syndrome.
Texas is leading the nation in installed wind and solar power capacity. It's first in wind, three times larger than the second place state, and is second in solar, behind only California. I'm proud of that as a Texan and that has been made possible partially because it's easier for Texans to build power generation facilities on their own land. To their credit, TX Republicans have stood by this. Since they've ran the state since the mid-1990s, you'd expect much less progress on that front if they geniunely believed in screwing over renewables. Yet they don't. I'll blame TX Rs for the bad they have done, but also credit them for the good they have done. They've clearly adopted a pro-renewable position and they deserve to be recognized for it.
1/4 of all of the United States' wind power is in the Lone Star State. I'm proud of that as a Texan and proud of that as an American.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2021, 12:54:10 AM »

Rapid population growth is an underrated factor in this occurring. TX's population has doubled over the span of the past 40 years.

40 years is beyond any reasonable objective amount of time necessary to develop a public power grid to deal with population growth. The Republican party has literally shot Public Utilities in the foot, then reloaded and shot them in the head the last 10 to 20 years.
Could you point to any examples of Republican sabotaging of the utility system in Texas?

THe creation of a useless state grid that's barely connected to anything else, for the sole purpose of virtue-signalling about how TEXAS!!!!™ doesn't need no stinkin' federal interference because it's TEXAS!!!!™. And what good did quadrupling down on good ol' TEXAS!!!!™ do for em, other than making it almost impossible to import electricity when they need it, and allowing those incredible privatized electric companies to hike prices by 180 times?
Actually, Texas has been able to push the envelope on renewables in part because it has its own electricity grid. And hiking of prices, where it is happening, is not "sabotaging the power grid". Do you and other people fingering the TX GOP even understand the TX power grid and the complex milieu of things in relation to its management or are you just cluelessly trying to advance a generic "GOP bad" talking point without even putting a real argument in favor?

WTF  "Texas pushing the envelope in renewables"  are you talking about? Did you not hear Governor Abbott only a couple months ago incredulously claimed that the collapse of the Texas Energy System was because the failure of Renewables of wind and solar because allegedly the wind turbines froze and the solar panels didn't work in Cloudy weather - - spoiler alert, neither were remotely true and Renewables were the only part of the grid actually continue to function. Did you actually miss the fact that every other product Texas Republican followed suit? Renewables arcbest a red-haired stepchild to the persons of power in Texas government which still pays deep bended knee homage to the fossil fuels Industries.

You have a lot of gall using prior poster of creating a knee-jerk Republican bad thread, when you're in post seems to be nothing more than me knee-jerk defense of the indefensible
Are you informed on the data that shows the increases in TX's wind power generation? Yes or No?
Actions speak louder than words. I don't care about what Gov Abbott said about wind power, I care about cold hard facts and statistics put in fair context.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2021, 01:12:45 AM »

Rapid population growth is an underrated factor in this occurring. TX's population has doubled over the span of the past 40 years.

40 years is beyond any reasonable objective amount of time necessary to develop a public power grid to deal with population growth. The Republican party has literally shot Public Utilities in the foot, then reloaded and shot them in the head the last 10 to 20 years.
Could you point to any examples of Republican sabotaging of the utility system in Texas?

THe creation of a useless state grid that's barely connected to anything else, for the sole purpose of virtue-signalling about how TEXAS!!!!™ doesn't need no stinkin' federal interference because it's TEXAS!!!!™. And what good did quadrupling down on good ol' TEXAS!!!!™ do for em, other than making it almost impossible to import electricity when they need it, and allowing those incredible privatized electric companies to hike prices by 180 times?
Actually, Texas has been able to push the envelope on renewables in part because it has its own electricity grid. And hiking of prices, where it is happening, is not "sabotaging the power grid". Do you and other people fingering the TX GOP even understand the TX power grid and the complex milieu of things in relation to its management or are you just cluelessly trying to advance a generic "GOP bad" talking point without even putting a real argument in favor?

Unsure what sort of "pushing the envelope" leads to power outages for millions because you can't pull energy from any other grids. This is something literally everyone else learned how to do with interconnects. Texas just has a severe case of special snowflake syndrome.
Texas is leading the nation in installed wind and solar power capacity. It's first in wind, three times larger than the second place state, and is second in solar, behind only California. I'm proud of that as a Texan and that has been made possible partially because it's easier for Texans to build power generation facilities on their own land. To their credit, TX Republicans have stood by this. Since they've ran the state since the mid-1990s, you'd expect much less progress on that front if they geniunely believed in screwing over renewables. Yet they don't. I'll blame TX Rs for the bad they have done, but also credit them for the good they have done. They've clearly adopted a pro-renewable position and they deserve to be recognized for it.
1/4 of all of the United States' wind power is in the Lone Star State. I'm proud of that as a Texan and proud of that as an American.

You are rather disingenuously proclaiming Texas's renewable energy numbers on sheer production rather than share of its power grid. Course Texas Being II geographically largest state and third largest population is going to have a disproportionate share compared to say Delaware of the amount of Renewables energy produces. However, is it over all share of its power grade, Renewables are relatively unimpressive.

I'm not sure how anyone not blinded by jingoistic State pride could fail to see the complete collapse of a deregulation fantasist power grid only a few months ago, the whole scale false blaming of Renewables on the collapse, and then seen arcot fall on its face just as badly a few months later, and try to chalk this up as coincidental to the deregulation Jihad Texas Republicans have imposed on their energy grid, and also determine that said State leadership are fundamentally hostile two renewable energy. It's literally a disconnect from reality
Let's look at the statistics, shall we?
"As of January 2021, the total installed wind power nameplate generating capacity in the United States was 122,478 megawatts (MW)."
Texas sits at 33,133 MW. 27.05%
Also, Texas has 4 of the 8 largest wind power facilities in the United States.

In terms of solar, the numbers are less impressive but still quite good. CA is way ahead, but in Texas, over the past 3 years, connected solar capacity has grown by a factor of two and a half. In 2020 alone it wasn't far from almost doubling over the course of one year. 7,784.6 MW of solar power was connected to the TX grid by 2020. 97,275 MW is the comparable nationwide figure.

That is less than Texas' overall proportion of the national population, at 8.79%, but it's very reasonable to expect that number to rise above the national average in the years ahead. And Texas is still WAAAY ahead in wind.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2021, 01:34:59 AM »

Rapid population growth is an underrated factor in this occurring. TX's population has doubled over the span of the past 40 years.

40 years is beyond any reasonable objective amount of time necessary to develop a public power grid to deal with population growth. The Republican party has literally shot Public Utilities in the foot, then reloaded and shot them in the head the last 10 to 20 years.
Could you point to any examples of Republican sabotaging of the utility system in Texas?

THe creation of a useless state grid that's barely connected to anything else, for the sole purpose of virtue-signalling about how TEXAS!!!!™ doesn't need no stinkin' federal interference because it's TEXAS!!!!™. And what good did quadrupling down on good ol' TEXAS!!!!™ do for em, other than making it almost impossible to import electricity when they need it, and allowing those incredible privatized electric companies to hike prices by 180 times?
Actually, Texas has been able to push the envelope on renewables in part because it has its own electricity grid. And hiking of prices, where it is happening, is not "sabotaging the power grid". Do you and other people fingering the TX GOP even understand the TX power grid and the complex milieu of things in relation to its management or are you just cluelessly trying to advance a generic "GOP bad" talking point without even putting a real argument in favor?

Unsure what sort of "pushing the envelope" leads to power outages for millions because you can't pull energy from any other grids. This is something literally everyone else learned how to do with interconnects. Texas just has a severe case of special snowflake syndrome.
Texas is leading the nation in installed wind and solar power capacity. It's first in wind, three times larger than the second place state, and is second in solar, behind only California. I'm proud of that as a Texan and that has been made possible partially because it's easier for Texans to build power generation facilities on their own land. To their credit, TX Republicans have stood by this. Since they've ran the state since the mid-1990s, you'd expect much less progress on that front if they geniunely believed in screwing over renewables. Yet they don't. I'll blame TX Rs for the bad they have done, but also credit them for the good they have done. They've clearly adopted a pro-renewable position and they deserve to be recognized for it.
1/4 of all of the United States' wind power is in the Lone Star State. I'm proud of that as a Texan and proud of that as an American.

You are rather disingenuously proclaiming Texas's renewable energy numbers on sheer production rather than share of its power grid. Course Texas Being II geographically largest state and third largest population is going to have a disproportionate share compared to say Delaware of the amount of Renewables energy produces. However, is it over all share of its power grade, Renewables are relatively unimpressive.

I'm not sure how anyone not blinded by jingoistic State pride could fail to see the complete collapse of a deregulation fantasist power grid only a few months ago, the whole scale false blaming of Renewables on the collapse, and then seen arcot fall on its face just as badly a few months later, and try to chalk this up as coincidental to the deregulation Jihad Texas Republicans have imposed on their energy grid, and also determine that said State leadership are fundamentally hostile two renewable energy. It's literally a disconnect from reality
Let's look at the statistics, shall we?
"As of January 2021, the total installed wind power nameplate generating capacity in the United States was 122,478 megawatts (MW)."
Texas sits at 33,133 MW. 27.05%
Also, Texas has 4 of the 8 largest wind power facilities in the United States.

In terms of solar, the numbers are less impressive but still quite good. CA is way ahead, but in Texas, over the past 3 years, connected solar capacity has grown by a factor of two and a half. In 2020 alone it wasn't far from almost doubling over the course of one year. 7,784.6 MW of solar power was connected to the TX grid by 2020. 97,275 MW is the comparable nationwide figure.

That is less than Texas' overall proportion of the national population, at 8.79%, but it's very reasonable to expect that number to rise above the national average in the years ahead. And Texas is still WAAAY ahead in wind.

Great. So Texas is indeed behind in solar production, and despite rabbit antipathy from its state leadership towards renewals has outpaced the country in wind energy production because few places have such broad expanse of windy flat areas. Great.

Which of course disproves exactly Jack squat in terms of Texas State jingoism which your posts probably display and rabid deregulation have isolated Texas's energy grid causing repeated disasters and literal loss of life, and that the powers that be in Texas AR viciously opposed to renewable energy. That was the point, and remains unchanged.
I would you say that you are letting recent statements on part of leading TX politicians overly influence your perception of how TX Rs have handled the grid. Abbott's blaming of wind turbines was almost certainly a pure distraction, designed to ensure any anger that might rise on the issue was not directed at him.
'All of the above' is the long-standing energy policy in TX. Supporting all kinds of energy - including renewables.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2021, 01:42:21 AM »

Like, it is one thing to scapegoat something in an interview with the media, quite another to actually alter the policy on said issue. Abbott is a self-serving figure who almost certainly doesn't want to screw over wind and solar and I'm sure he even supports them at least quietly, like most Texas Republicans do.
If he really hates wind, then numerical growth in wind generation figures will slow massively over the course of the next few years (assuming he is re-elected next year), as he uses his power to slow the growth of the Texas wind power industry.
And I'll believe that when I see it.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2021, 02:15:40 AM »

So the independent Texas power grid does not, in fact, suck rocks?

Also, the issue isn't whether or not Texas has a vibrant wind power economy-- it'd be surprising if it didn't considering its geography, weather patterns, size, and population - - but how much larger could be if you didn't have a republican establishment deeply opposed to Renewables, and increasingly so over the course of the last 20 years.

20 years ago a wind farm would have been seen as another way for a businessman to make a buck. Now it's being seen as a direct assault on the fossil fuel Industries hegemony on the state economy and power structure. The Times They Are A-Changin oh, and the Texas Republican Party despises that
Does it suck rocks? In some ways yes, other ways, definitely not. It's a double-edged sword. It's highly misleading though to look at just the bad and not the good. What I'm taking exception with, above all, is the emphasis on the blackouts. The worth of an electric grid is not decided just by whether it has blackouts. It's certainly possible for Texas to clearly need to connect with the rest of the nation sometime in the future, but to claim it's already reached that point is missing important context and the broader picture. It also misses the opportunities Texas has because it has a grid distinct from the rest of the country. It's easier for it to experiment and toy with new ideas and things because of that.

Of course TX Rs are and have always been pro-oil, but pro-fossil fuels does not have to mean anti-renewable. Rick Perry was an advocate for "all-of-the-above" as Trump's Secretary of Energy, a phrase which, pointedly, does include wind. Deregulation has meant that TX's energy market is highly driven by market fluncations. You can call TX Rs solidly pro-corporate, but you can't call them anti-renewable. I don't think it's necessarily the case that this is even guaranteed to change, or that there is a hard break between the GOP of now and the GOP of 20 years or 10 years ago. There's actually considerable overlap between pro-renewable pro-corporate policies and pro-fossil fuels pro-corporate policies. Call the TX GOP overly pro-business all you like (I'd agree firmly with that wording), just don't say they are against renewables in practice; that is evidently NOT the case.

Also, it really makes no sense to claim that deregulation leaves TX open to blackouts, unless there is evidence that owners of the utilities are siphoning money away to the point that it is  harming backup systems. Nothing suggests that the TX of today is like the California of the late 90s, which was not used to a deregulated power model and where predatory actors undertook action that did material harm to the state of California.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2021, 07:00:05 AM »
« Edited: June 16, 2021, 08:58:53 AM by Southern Deputy Speaker Punxsutawney Phil »

So the independent Texas power grid does not, in fact, suck rocks?

Also, the issue isn't whether or not Texas has a vibrant wind power economy-- it'd be surprising if it didn't considering its geography, weather patterns, size, and population - - but how much larger could be if you didn't have a republican establishment deeply opposed to Renewables, and increasingly so over the course of the last 20 years.

20 years ago a wind farm would have been seen as another way for a businessman to make a buck. Now it's being seen as a direct assault on the fossil fuel Industries hegemony on the state economy and power structure. The Times They Are A-Changin oh, and the Texas Republican Party despises that
Does it suck rocks? In some ways yes, other ways, definitely not. It's a double-edged sword. It's highly misleading though to look at just the bad and not the good. What I'm taking exception with, above all, is the emphasis on the blackouts. The worth of an electric grid is not decided just by whether it has blackouts. It's certainly possible for Texas to clearly need to connect with the rest of the nation sometime in the future, but to claim it's already reached that point is missing important context and the broader picture. It also misses the opportunities Texas has because it has a grid distinct from the rest of the country. It's easier for it to experiment and toy with new ideas and things because of that.

Of course TX Rs are and have always been pro-oil, but pro-fossil fuels does not have to mean anti-renewable. Rick Perry was an advocate for "all-of-the-above" as Trump's Secretary of Energy, a phrase which, pointedly, does include wind. Deregulation has meant that TX's energy market is highly driven by market fluncations. You can call TX Rs solidly pro-corporate, but you can't call them anti-renewable. I don't think it's necessarily the case that this is even guaranteed to change, or that there is a hard break between the GOP of now and the GOP of 20 years or 10 years ago. There's actually considerable overlap between pro-renewable pro-corporate policies and pro-fossil fuels pro-corporate policies. Call the TX GOP overly pro-business all you like (I'd agree firmly with that wording), just don't say they are against renewables in practice; that is evidently NOT the case.

Also, it really makes no sense to claim that deregulation leaves TX open to blackouts, unless there is evidence that owners of the utilities are siphoning money away to the point that it is  harming backup systems. Nothing suggests that the TX of today is like the California of the late 90s, which was not used to a deregulated power model and where predatory actors undertook action that did material harm to the state of California.
What else am I supposed to judge my state’s electric grid on if it can’t, you know, reliably provide me electricity.
To clarify what I meant by that - just because there are times blackouts* happens doesn't mean the electric grid is garbage. Especially when climate change and population growth are testing the grid.
Context matters.
edit: this isn't even getting into how unreasonable it is to be judging an electricity grid by the fact that it didn't operate at 100% levels during a historically very rare weather event.
*=it's dawned on me I've used the word blackout to mean both blackouts and brownouts. My bad.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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Posts: 41,919
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2021, 09:29:58 AM »

So the independent Texas power grid does not, in fact, suck rocks?

Also, the issue isn't whether or not Texas has a vibrant wind power economy-- it'd be surprising if it didn't considering its geography, weather patterns, size, and population - - but how much larger could be if you didn't have a republican establishment deeply opposed to Renewables, and increasingly so over the course of the last 20 years.

20 years ago a wind farm would have been seen as another way for a businessman to make a buck. Now it's being seen as a direct assault on the fossil fuel Industries hegemony on the state economy and power structure. The Times They Are A-Changin oh, and the Texas Republican Party despises that
Does it suck rocks? In some ways yes, other ways, definitely not. It's a double-edged sword. It's highly misleading though to look at just the bad and not the good. What I'm taking exception with, above all, is the emphasis on the blackouts. The worth of an electric grid is not decided just by whether it has blackouts. It's certainly possible for Texas to clearly need to connect with the rest of the nation sometime in the future, but to claim it's already reached that point is missing important context and the broader picture. It also misses the opportunities Texas has because it has a grid distinct from the rest of the country. It's easier for it to experiment and toy with new ideas and things because of that.

Of course TX Rs are and have always been pro-oil, but pro-fossil fuels does not have to mean anti-renewable. Rick Perry was an advocate for "all-of-the-above" as Trump's Secretary of Energy, a phrase which, pointedly, does include wind. Deregulation has meant that TX's energy market is highly driven by market fluncations. You can call TX Rs solidly pro-corporate, but you can't call them anti-renewable. I don't think it's necessarily the case that this is even guaranteed to change, or that there is a hard break between the GOP of now and the GOP of 20 years or 10 years ago. There's actually considerable overlap between pro-renewable pro-corporate policies and pro-fossil fuels pro-corporate policies. Call the TX GOP overly pro-business all you like (I'd agree firmly with that wording), just don't say they are against renewables in practice; that is evidently NOT the case.

Also, it really makes no sense to claim that deregulation leaves TX open to blackouts, unless there is evidence that owners of the utilities are siphoning money away to the point that it is  harming backup systems. Nothing suggests that the TX of today is like the California of the late 90s, which was not used to a deregulated power model and where predatory actors undertook action that did material harm to the state of California.
What else am I supposed to judge my state’s electric grid on if it can’t, you know, reliably provide me electricity.
To clarify what I meant by that - just because there are times blackouts* happens doesn't mean the electric grid is garbage. Especially when climate change and population growth are testing the grid.
Context matters.
edit: this isn't even getting into how unreasonable it is to be judging an electricity grid by the fact that it didn't operate at 100% levels during a historically very rare weather event.
*=it's dawned on me I've used the word blackout to mean both blackouts and brownouts. My bad.

Climate change and population growth are only going to get worse in the coming years, and if infrastructure isn't prepared for the challenges that we face in those regards then what is it really worth? No one's expecting perfect performance from the grid, but to be able to keep the AC running more often than not in swampy Sun Belt summers that are only getting worse each year shouldn't be too much to ask, and there was no excuse for people to die during the snowstorm earlier this year.
As far as I'm concerned, it *is* able to generally keep AC running more often than not, so in fact some of the talking points people are making use of in this debate (if you can call it that) are in fact not at all rooted in facts and/or driven by partisanship-tinted glasses.
All this does not detract from the fact that it is prudent for authorities to ask people to take steps to reduce their power use.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
Atlas Politician
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,919
United States


« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2021, 09:58:10 AM »

So the independent Texas power grid does not, in fact, suck rocks?

Also, the issue isn't whether or not Texas has a vibrant wind power economy-- it'd be surprising if it didn't considering its geography, weather patterns, size, and population - - but how much larger could be if you didn't have a republican establishment deeply opposed to Renewables, and increasingly so over the course of the last 20 years.

20 years ago a wind farm would have been seen as another way for a businessman to make a buck. Now it's being seen as a direct assault on the fossil fuel Industries hegemony on the state economy and power structure. The Times They Are A-Changin oh, and the Texas Republican Party despises that
Does it suck rocks? In some ways yes, other ways, definitely not. It's a double-edged sword. It's highly misleading though to look at just the bad and not the good. What I'm taking exception with, above all, is the emphasis on the blackouts. The worth of an electric grid is not decided just by whether it has blackouts. It's certainly possible for Texas to clearly need to connect with the rest of the nation sometime in the future, but to claim it's already reached that point is missing important context and the broader picture. It also misses the opportunities Texas has because it has a grid distinct from the rest of the country. It's easier for it to experiment and toy with new ideas and things because of that.

Of course TX Rs are and have always been pro-oil, but pro-fossil fuels does not have to mean anti-renewable. Rick Perry was an advocate for "all-of-the-above" as Trump's Secretary of Energy, a phrase which, pointedly, does include wind. Deregulation has meant that TX's energy market is highly driven by market fluncations. You can call TX Rs solidly pro-corporate, but you can't call them anti-renewable. I don't think it's necessarily the case that this is even guaranteed to change, or that there is a hard break between the GOP of now and the GOP of 20 years or 10 years ago. There's actually considerable overlap between pro-renewable pro-corporate policies and pro-fossil fuels pro-corporate policies. Call the TX GOP overly pro-business all you like (I'd agree firmly with that wording), just don't say they are against renewables in practice; that is evidently NOT the case.

Also, it really makes no sense to claim that deregulation leaves TX open to blackouts, unless there is evidence that owners of the utilities are siphoning money away to the point that it is  harming backup systems. Nothing suggests that the TX of today is like the California of the late 90s, which was not used to a deregulated power model and where predatory actors undertook action that did material harm to the state of California.
What else am I supposed to judge my state’s electric grid on if it can’t, you know, reliably provide me electricity.
To clarify what I meant by that - just because there are times blackouts* happens doesn't mean the electric grid is garbage. Especially when climate change and population growth are testing the grid.
Context matters.
edit: this isn't even getting into how unreasonable it is to be judging an electricity grid by the fact that it didn't operate at 100% levels during a historically very rare weather event.
*=it's dawned on me I've used the word blackout to mean both blackouts and brownouts. My bad.

Climate change and population growth are only going to get worse in the coming years, and if infrastructure isn't prepared for the challenges that we face in those regards then what is it really worth? No one's expecting perfect performance from the grid, but to be able to keep the AC running more often than not in swampy Sun Belt summers that are only getting worse each year shouldn't be too much to ask, and there was no excuse for people to die during the snowstorm earlier this year.
As far as I'm concerned, it *is* able to generally keep AC running more often than not, so in fact some of the talking points people are making use of in this debate (if you can call it that) are in fact not at all rooted in facts and/or driven by partisanship-tinted glasses.
All this does not detract from the fact that it is prudent for authorities to ask people to take steps to reduce their power use.
“More often than not?” Is that the standard to aspire to? Were you here in February during the storm? The power wasn’t on when people needed it the most. That’s what this is about.

It’s one thing to give consumers tips on how to save on their power bill in the summer, or recommend power conservation for the sake of the environment. It’s another thing entirely for ERCOT to threaten that if we don’t comply with their demands the grid is going to crash again. It’s not my job to control power distribution. It’s literally ERCOT’s job, and they’re basically giving Texans advance warning that they might not be able to do their job. The audacity of this shady entity that the average Petson had never heard of until this year now telling citizens that it’s our own fault if the grid craps the bed again is what’s justifiably causing resentment among the public.
I was talking to Discovolante, and so I used discovolante's standard for use in my argument. I personally would have hewed to a tougher standard, but even in that case, the power grid is performing not bad. In any case, I was here during the Texas outage, and I even started a thread asking people if they were being affected.
It's laughably silly in any case to decide how good the Texas power grid is on basis of a freak weather event. And yes, as a citizen I feel an obligation to help keep power usage under control.
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2021, 10:13:11 AM »

So the independent Texas power grid does not, in fact, suck rocks?

Also, the issue isn't whether or not Texas has a vibrant wind power economy-- it'd be surprising if it didn't considering its geography, weather patterns, size, and population - - but how much larger could be if you didn't have a republican establishment deeply opposed to Renewables, and increasingly so over the course of the last 20 years.

20 years ago a wind farm would have been seen as another way for a businessman to make a buck. Now it's being seen as a direct assault on the fossil fuel Industries hegemony on the state economy and power structure. The Times They Are A-Changin oh, and the Texas Republican Party despises that
Does it suck rocks? In some ways yes, other ways, definitely not. It's a double-edged sword. It's highly misleading though to look at just the bad and not the good. What I'm taking exception with, above all, is the emphasis on the blackouts. The worth of an electric grid is not decided just by whether it has blackouts. It's certainly possible for Texas to clearly need to connect with the rest of the nation sometime in the future, but to claim it's already reached that point is missing important context and the broader picture. It also misses the opportunities Texas has because it has a grid distinct from the rest of the country. It's easier for it to experiment and toy with new ideas and things because of that.

Of course TX Rs are and have always been pro-oil, but pro-fossil fuels does not have to mean anti-renewable. Rick Perry was an advocate for "all-of-the-above" as Trump's Secretary of Energy, a phrase which, pointedly, does include wind. Deregulation has meant that TX's energy market is highly driven by market fluncations. You can call TX Rs solidly pro-corporate, but you can't call them anti-renewable. I don't think it's necessarily the case that this is even guaranteed to change, or that there is a hard break between the GOP of now and the GOP of 20 years or 10 years ago. There's actually considerable overlap between pro-renewable pro-corporate policies and pro-fossil fuels pro-corporate policies. Call the TX GOP overly pro-business all you like (I'd agree firmly with that wording), just don't say they are against renewables in practice; that is evidently NOT the case.

Also, it really makes no sense to claim that deregulation leaves TX open to blackouts, unless there is evidence that owners of the utilities are siphoning money away to the point that it is  harming backup systems. Nothing suggests that the TX of today is like the California of the late 90s, which was not used to a deregulated power model and where predatory actors undertook action that did material harm to the state of California.

Once again, please explain what the hell literally anyone in Texas gets out of being on a special snowflake grid that can't handle being overloaded because there's no fallback.
I might go into detail if I was so inclined, but I'm not sure you'd be able to understand.
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2021, 10:21:44 AM »

I was talking to Discovolante, and so I used discovolante's standard for use in my argument. I personally would have hewed to a tougher standard, but even in that case, the power grid is performing not bad. In any case, I was here during the Texas outage, and I even started a thread asking people if they were being affected.
It's laughably silly in any case to decide how good the Texas power grid is on basis of a freak weather event. And yes, as a citizen I feel an obligation to help keep power usage under control.
1. The “freak weather event” didn’t utterly cripple any other state the way it did Texas. Texas failed because our grid was woefully unprepared for an event that other states were ready for, and our leaders need to be honest about that. So yes, I think it’s fair to judge our infrastructure based on performance during the freeze.

2. The topic being discussed in this thread is ERCOT warning that the grid might fail again NOT because of a freak weather event, but because the grid is not currently capable of handling regular Texas summer heat.
1. No other state impacted by the freeze was as far south and as warm as Texas, making it an apples-and-oranges comparison. In any case I was not the first person to bring the freeze in as an argument.
2. Raising warnings in this manner is smart because it is highly likely to lead to people cutting their power use. The most efficient way to prevent any brownouts is to warn people that they might well happen. And it's not really a lie either. No one loses in this scenario.
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2021, 10:29:45 AM »

"To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the virtues of privatization. The neoliberalism is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of the Austrian School most of the profit will go over a typical leftie's head."
I got sick of CalamityBlue's style of conversing in this conversation, so I made use of sardonic mockery to register my discontent with that and to signal a break. *shrug*
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2021, 11:14:52 AM »
« Edited: June 16, 2021, 11:26:47 AM by Southern Deputy Speaker Punxsutawney Phil »

"To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the virtues of privatization. The neoliberalism is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of the Austrian School most of the profit will go over a typical leftie's head."
I got sick of CalamityBlue's style of conversing in this conversation, so I made use of sardonic mockery to register my discontent with that and to signal a break. *shrug*


Well, if you would so kindly enlighten everyone with your perspective, because really, I'm not the only one wondering what your defense of a separate grid vulnerable to failure is. You haven't addressed it once in the last 20 posts. Seriously, just tell us why you think the Texas grid is a good idea.
I think the reputation that ERCOT has among many posters here is based off some highly overblown perceptions, partly fed by partisan views and partly off simple ignorance. As a Texas resident, what people are saying about it doesn't match what I have seen.
I've already said why I think the current arrangement is justifiable, but you don't seem to want to try to understand what I've already wrote. Why would any further ruminating do anything?
It's not like I don't favor some spending on further weatherization. But you and others willfully don't try to understand my views here. If you are, you have a funny way of showing it.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2021, 11:57:22 AM »

I was talking to Discovolante, and so I used discovolante's standard for use in my argument. I personally would have hewed to a tougher standard, but even in that case, the power grid is performing not bad. In any case, I was here during the Texas outage, and I even started a thread asking people if they were being affected.
It's laughably silly in any case to decide how good the Texas power grid is on basis of a freak weather event. And yes, as a citizen I feel an obligation to help keep power usage under control.
1. The “freak weather event” didn’t utterly cripple any other state the way it did Texas. Texas failed because our grid was woefully unprepared for an event that other states were ready for, and our leaders need to be honest about that. So yes, I think it’s fair to judge our infrastructure based on performance during the freeze.

2. The topic being discussed in this thread is ERCOT warning that the grid might fail again NOT because of a freak weather event, but because the grid is not currently capable of handling regular Texas summer heat.
1. No other state impacted by the freeze was as far south and as warm as Texas, making it an apples-and-oranges comparison. In any case I was not the first person to bring the freeze in as an argument.
2. Raising warnings in this manner is smart because it is highly likely to lead to people cutting their power use. The most efficient way to prevent any brownouts is to warn people that they might well happen. And it's not really a lie either. No one loses in this scenario.
10 years ago, a similar severe cold weather event hit New Mexico and West Texas. Due to Texas’ failure to winterize their gas pipelines and facilities, supplies to New Mexico dropped severely, and the New Mexico agency in charge had to make hard choices about who got gas heat and who didn’t.

Fortunately, New Mexico’s electrical grid didn’t fail, and space heaters and the like kept people alive. As opposed to, say, Texas.

Texas had warning of this problem. Texas chose not to do anything about it. Just like this winter.

Texas chooses not to do anything about a lot of problems.
That's not at all a perfect comparison because New Mexico is very different topographically and climatically relative to Texas, but at least it's not a crazy comparison. And the event from ten years ago was not as bad as the cold weather event this year, I think (could be biased because I don't remember 10 years ago as vividly as now and my neighborhood was hit pretty hard this time around), but it's close enough to be a valid comparison.
Regardless of these issues (and I get the nagging feeling they verge into nitpick territory), I feel obligated to congratulate you for being the first critic here to actually make sense overall. I agree some winterization has to occur. A Texas state legislator has proposed a bill to introduce fines in case of stoppages, and that strikes me as a good law to pass.
More generally, as I in fact hinted at earlier, the way the state is ran is overly deferential to businesses. So yes, the state government does choose not to do much about many of its problems because in the eyes of those in charge of the state government, because either they aren't problems or solving the issue would be too expensive or both.
There's room to critique the way the state is run as it is. There isn't any need to go into hyperbole territory.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2021, 12:36:40 PM »

Well, I admit the opportunity to tweak Texans over something they do worse than Far Northern Chihuahua was irresistible Tongue
Never change, New Mexicans! Lol.
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