Republicans only: what was so bad about Obama? (user search)
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  Republicans only: what was so bad about Obama? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Republicans only: what was so bad about Obama?  (Read 5424 times)
President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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Posts: 41,726
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« on: December 18, 2018, 11:34:16 PM »

His very left-wing social agenda, some of which was defeated in courts.  But, he was probably the first president who fully embraced the idea of America as a post-Christian nation and went all-in on secular, left-wing values.

America never was a Christian nation

That's the principle that we disagree on.  I don't think the government should force adherence to any religion, but our laws should absolutely have a basis in Christian values.

How profoundly against the letter and spirit of the founding fathers ideals.

"Separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution.  The first amendment only protects religion from government's interference, but does not protect the government from religion's influence.  No faithful Christian would be willing to say "Jesus, look away" when they were voting on a piece of legislation.  Christians must take Christ with them everywhere they go.

So surely you would not protest if a Muslim politician wanted to impose Sharia Law using the same rationale?

I would certainly protest the idea that electing someone who believed that would be good for the preservation of individual liberties.

As would the deist Founding Fathers if someone wanted Christianity enshrined into law.


Deism amongst the Founding Fathers is overstated.


The first sentence of the first amendment literally says we cannot base our laws based on any religion .






No, it doesn't.  Establishing a state religion and forcing people to follow it is very different from politicians consulting their faith when deciding right from wrong.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
Atlas Politician
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,726
United States


« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2018, 10:34:21 AM »

I'm not just trying to play defense here, but how much of that stuff represents Obama's policy preferences, and how much represents what he could accomplish given the lay of the land in Congress, especially after 2010? The prioritization of health care was largely his choice, but it's not clear to me that Congress had an appetite for more stimulus or more financial reform than they passed, even if it wasn't enough. I'm not sure how/if Obama could have done more (with the exception, of course, of holding the heads of the institutions that caused the crisis accountable, to prevent the moral hazard in the first place).

Everything outlined here was a matter of choice, not necessity. Look at who Obama appointed, his executive choices, his major addresses, and his general rhetoric.

Of course there's no guarantee that legislative outcomes would have improved. That's impossible to demonstrate (and therefore always the first choice of objection for his defenders). But decisions like appointing Tim Geithner and Larry Summers, starting a drone war in the Arabian peninsula, or devoting much of his second term to promoting an unpopular international trade agreement were all just that: His decisions.
pushing for the TPP was the right thing and still is the right thing. Containing China and its illiberal and bullying tendencies is important for the future of the free world.
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