Opinion of Fatah

[DavidB.]

Murderers of my people and colonizers of my land. Huge HPs.

[DavidB.]

Are you saying that about all Palestinians, or just Fatah (and I presume Hamas as well)?

this thread is about fatah, so my answer was about fatah too, but it's definitely also true for hamas. not for all palestinians of course.

[DavidB.]

Your land? It's not your land and it's not Fatahs. By calling it your land you're making the same divisive argument that lots of Muslims make. Your land is in Europe! This is the reason people have been killing each other over there for thousands of years.

Priceless, Americans telling me what's my land and what's not. Love the goysplaining. But of course it has always been my land and I don't care if you find that to be "divisive" or if it offends your precious feelings -- or Muslims', for that matter. But maybe you could go back to Europe?

How is it your land, and not the palestinians?

I did not say it is not their land. It does not have to be a zero-sum game and the fact that it is generally presented as such causes many of the problems we have. However, it is certainly the Jewish land. We are indigenous to it, and the fact that it was stolen from us does not mean it is not ours anymore.

[DavidB.]

If you weren't born in Israel and don't live there now, it's not your land. It's pretty simple.

You really think the whole world works like America, don't you?

[DavidB.]

If you weren't born in Israel and don't live there now, it's not your land. It's pretty simple.

You really think the whole world works like America, don't you?

The Palestinian territory might ancestrally be your land, but by current situation, it is the home for much more Palestinianian people, that the Israeli government have invade and started settlements on their land.

If you really adhere to the bizarre idea that a country should only be inhabited by one people, and all other people who engage in normal activities, such as building houses and schools, are "invaders", then I do not think I am the one holding disturbing ideas. Following your own logic, you should probably leave Australia too, especially considering the fact that Jews, at least, are indigenous to the land of Israel.

does that mean pomerania and silesia are german land? or that california, texas, and everything in between are mexican land?

Afaik "Mexican" is hardly a useful term when describing indigeneity, but I surely advocate Native Americans' right to live in their ancestral land, even if they ended up on the Mexican side of the modern border. I also think Germans with ancestors in Pomerania and Silesia should be able to live there, although I wouldn't say the "German people" are indigenous to Pomerania and Silesia because I don't think it reflects the way people self-identified when these areas were more German (but I don't know much about these regions' history). Anyway there's no problem here, because all Germans can now move there.

[DavidB.]

so what's your definition of indigeneity, then? after all, palestinians have been living in the area for well over a millennium

Well, let's simply use the UN definition.

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It is easy to read both the Jewish and the Palestinian narrative in this definition, and that's, of course, a big part of the problem -- but it's only a big part of the problem if one thinks in terms of a zero-sum logic in which only one people can live in/rule the land. I reject that idea because it will only bring us more bloodshed. Instead, a consociational solution needs to be found in which both national communities can rule themselves while making joint decisions on intercommunal affairs and foreign policy on a federal level, with both national communities having veto power.

[DavidB.]

that is, of course, wildly contrary to the views of just about every group you support

I don't think you are an expert on what I do and do not support.

No, but you said murderers of my people and colonizers of my land, which is what Israel is doing by forcefully, and with military supremacy taking over Palestinian Land, displacing Palestinian people, with their land shrinking every day, from the 1947/1967 UN partition plan. Of course you can live there, within the Palestinian territory, with the Palestinian government, but you cannot go into another country, with force and make it Israeli.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

[DavidB.]

So, basically, something similar to what like Bosnia has?

Yes, but with an important exception: Bosnia's consociationalism is territorially based. If you live in the Serbian part, I don't think you can just pack up and move to the Bosniak part, although I'm no expert on this. Instead, both national communities should rule themselves on a non-territorial basis. If the West is to become officially or unofficially Jewish and the East is to become officially or unofficially Palestinian, you create the impression that these communities are trying to "steal" this land and make it theirs, which will cause problems. Instead, everyone should have the right to set up communities anywhere in the land, with the normal exceptions related to the preservation of nature, the environment etc.

[DavidB.]

Sounds reasonable.
Would people would registered as a member of one group or the other? And once registered, they would be able to vote in elections for said authority?

Yes.

[DavidB.]

My point is that Fatah, rightfully or wrongly, is fighting to claim back land that has been taken away from them, by the Israeli government, in which the Palestinian land is much smaller than the 1967 partition.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?