Obscure Groups Most Loyal to One Party Since 1856 (user search)
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  Obscure Groups Most Loyal to One Party Since 1856 (search mode)
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Author Topic: Obscure Groups Most Loyal to One Party Since 1856  (Read 1227 times)
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« on: February 24, 2022, 07:50:38 PM »

OH JESUS CHRIST


Since I have been summoned here, I will just second everything Yankee has said and point out for any intelligent people who may be interested in learning something about this period of American history that the Know Nothings and nativist hangers-on who were incorporated into the Republican party after 1858 came from the reactionary Old Line Whig tradition who viewed the slavery issue as a nuisance and desperately wanted it removed from the national discourse so they could go back to their favorite pastime, hating on immigrants and poor people. Eric Foner, the preeminent historian on the development of the Republican party in the Civil War era, calls them "conservatives" and points out that time and again they were a thorn in the side of Seward and the moderate-to-radical Republicans who undermined the anti-slavery movement at every turn. Seward in particular was so disgusted by these "Protestant bigots" that his lieutenant in New York politics called it a "great blessing" to be finally rid of them after the rupture of the Whig party, and counseled that if Republicans wanted to win the 1860 election they should rely on their German friends and the Barnburner Democrats and "leave the damned Know Nothings alone."

If "everything Henry has read" on the subject suggests these people were somehow "liberals," may I suggest he is not very well read!
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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Posts: 14,139


« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2022, 08:01:25 PM »
« Edited: February 24, 2022, 08:04:59 PM by Unconditional Surrender Truman »

I would highly recommend this book to anyone with an interest in the ideology and development of the Republican party in the decade preceding the Civil War. Fifty years after its first printing, it remains the definitive text on the Republican party in the 1850s and continues to be cited by academic historians as the basis for their investigations into the politics of the Early Republic. It is dated in some respects, as Foner's students have picked up where he left off in 1970 by expanding on for instance the strange career of the Barnburner Democrats (to whom Foner devotes an entire chapter), and other historians have been inspired by Foner's emphasis on ideology to investigate the development of antislavery politics prior to 1850 (see for instance this article on antislavery rhetoric in the Missouri Compromise debates, which draws heavily on Foner), but still it holds up very well despite its age. Overall, a very worthwhile read and a good starting place for someone interested in the serious scholarship on this topic.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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Posts: 14,139


« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2022, 08:49:38 PM »

Quote
Every State that seceded from the United States was a Democratic State.  Every ordinance of secession that was drawn was drawn by a Democrat.  Every man that endeavored to tear the old flag from the heaven that it enriches was a Democrat.  Every man that tried to destroy this nation was a Democrat.
This isn't even true, lol. Virginia and Tennessee were Whig/"Constitutional Union" (Bell) states, as were nearly North Carolina, Georgia, and Louisiana; several members of Jefferson Davis' cabinet were Whigs, including some of the most outspoken secessionists: Robert M. T. Hunter and Judah P. Benjamin come to mind. Robert Ingersoll, a partisan Republican of the post-war era, obviously has reasons for misrepresenting the historical reality, but this is why we distinguish between primary and secondary sources. I wonder if certain people even understand the difference, or the different uses to which they are put in serious historical writing.

As for the "New York intelligenstia" — in fact, urban centers were well known for producing Whigs and Republicans of a conservative bent in the nineteenth century; it was the rural areas of New England and the Yankee diaspora that produced the famous radicals. Not only were the conservative Old Line Whigs broadly hostile to the radicalism of these rural Republicans, but the radicals themselves considered the ex-Democrats in the Republican party more reliable allies than their big-city friends — and for good reason! The merchant classes were famously in bed with the Slave Power for most of the 1840s and earlier, and only got on board the anti-expansion train much later, when it became apparent the economic interests of the northern upper classes were endangered by the aggressive and reckless policies of the southern Democrats and the Buchanan administration. Throughout the 1860s, New York City was a hotbed for anti-war and anti-black sentiment; Boston famously welcomed William Lloyd Garrison with a noose when he visited the city decades earlier; Cincinnati experienced many and frequent race riots and was one of the last holdouts to the racially egalitarian social policies adopted by the Republican state legislature in the 1850s; and Philadelphia, despite its active abolitionist movement, was also host to an active and thriving anti-abolition presence. Myself and Yankee have both written at length about how antislavery does not necessarily equal liberalism, ditto for radical Republicanism, but if someone did want to make that argument, you probably shouldn't put all your cards on urban intellectuals!
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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*****
Posts: 14,139


« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2022, 10:22:41 PM »

There's a reason people tend not to take Christopher Hitchens very seriously, especially on the subject of religion. But I am not going to be dragged into another debate over whether "actually Catholics are the Masons, the Jews, and the Illuminati all in one" is a reasonable position for anyone to hold. (Especially not with someone who is already demonstrating their usual knack for swinging from argument to argument like some kind of Puritanical Tarzan, but somehow always staying on the topic of "anti-Catholicism was woke, actually" —curious, that!) I only came here because someone sent me a link to this thread, and the initial statements made by certain persons I found to be of a decidedly comic nature. Good evening.
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