Would you support the following HYPOTHETICAL peace treaty for the Russian-Ukrainian War? (user search)
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  Would you support the following HYPOTHETICAL peace treaty for the Russian-Ukrainian War? (search mode)
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Poll
Question: Would you support the following HYPOTHETICAL peace treaty for the Russian-Ukrainian War?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 54

Author Topic: Would you support the following HYPOTHETICAL peace treaty for the Russian-Ukrainian War?  (Read 2065 times)
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
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Posts: 45,199


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

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« on: August 10, 2023, 11:07:14 PM »

     It amuses me when people discuss dismembering Russia, forgetting that Russia has the power to turn us all into shadows on the wall and wouldn't hesitate to do so in order to forgo that outcome. While there are some unrealistic elements of the peace plan broached in the topic post and others in this thread have done a fine job of pointing them out, I do appreciate that it recognizes the need to give Russia an off-ramp that would discourage taking a nuclear option. I voted "yes" on the poll.

Yeah people don’t get that due to Russian nukes , they do have more leverage then they otherwise do . While that sucks , it is something we cannot change and thus have to deal with the issue as exists rather than what ideally should happen

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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,199


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2023, 11:35:08 AM »

The whole point of the collapse of the Soviet Union is that it marked the end of Marxism-Leninism as a viable governing ideology, and thus (from one perspective) represented the liberation of the Russians as well from the shackles of that ideology and the entity it was the guiding spirit for, not the defeat of Russia as a state and the Russians as a people. Heck, the final death blow to  the Soviet Union was delivered by the Russian Federation itself when it seceded (in conjunction with Ukraine and Belarus, the Central Asian countries didn’t really get a look in on the process) from the Union.

Russia =\= the Soviet Union.

Nah, which is what happens when you win a Cold War as opposed to a real one. The Soviet Union was a reincarnation of the Russian Empire and since its demise didn't result in a Western occupation the "imperial dream" and fantasies about Russian greatness and the existence of a "Russian world" survived it. Any Western economic aid, investments and trade agreements with Yeltsin's Russia should have been conditioned on Russia giving up its nuclear arsenal, otherwise we should have continued to treat Russia as an enemy nation and isolated them as much as possible. China was much less of a factor back then and if the alternatives had been "give up your nukes or starve" they might eventually have caved. 

The Soviet Union was not a reincarnation of the Russian Empire lol . The Soviet Union was way different ideologically and were actively hostile to the West while the Russian empire was an ally to the west .

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