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  American democracy has ground to a halt. (search mode)
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Author Topic: American democracy has ground to a halt.  (Read 2331 times)
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,199


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« on: June 14, 2019, 11:16:47 AM »

Congress worked fine until Reagan got elected and inspired an entire generation of true believer legislative bomb throwers to go into politics. Polarization is primarily the GOP's fault but the media with its insistence on bothsidesism doesn't want to say so.

Yes, Polarization Is Asymmetric—and Conservatives Are Worse

Tribalism Isn’t Our Democracy’s Main Problem. The Conservative Movement Is.

Political Scientist: Republicans Most Conservative They've Been In 100 Years


The 1980s were one of the least polarizing decades since the 50s at least when it comes to the public.

 
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,199


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2019, 11:23:03 PM »

Congress worked fine until Reagan got elected and inspired an entire generation of true believer legislative bomb throwers to go into politics. Polarization is primarily the GOP's fault but the media with its insistence on bothsidesism doesn't want to say so.

Yes, Polarization Is Asymmetric—and Conservatives Are Worse

Tribalism Isn’t Our Democracy’s Main Problem. The Conservative Movement Is.

Political Scientist: Republicans Most Conservative They've Been In 100 Years


The 1980s were one of the least polarizing decades since the 50s at least when it comes to the public.

 

The public is never polarized. The public has no deeply held political beliefs. It is the elites and activists who are polarized, not the public. For the umpteenth time....only the political parties are polarized.


Ok let me say voting patterns were the least polarizing in the 80s then it has in any decade since the 50s
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,199


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2019, 12:30:30 AM »

Congress worked fine until Reagan got elected and inspired an entire generation of true believer legislative bomb throwers to go into politics. Polarization is primarily the GOP's fault but the media with its insistence on bothsidesism doesn't want to say so.

Yes, Polarization Is Asymmetric—and Conservatives Are Worse

Tribalism Isn’t Our Democracy’s Main Problem. The Conservative Movement Is.

Political Scientist: Republicans Most Conservative They've Been In 100 Years


The 1980s were one of the least polarizing decades since the 50s at least when it comes to the public.

 

The public is never polarized. The public has no deeply held political beliefs. It is the elites and activists who are polarized, not the public. For the umpteenth time....only the political parties are polarized.


Ok let me say voting patterns were the least polarizing in the 80s then it has in any decade since the 50s

I would disagree (as a person who observed events with my own eyes). But i mean "party polarization". In 1960th and 1970th Democratic party still elected considerable number of conservatives on federal and state level. In 1980th - much less. The same - for Republican party, which, after Reagan campaign of 1976, began "self-cleaning" of the party from liberals.

In that way that’s true but look at the fact that Reagan won huge landslides while Dems won big in Congress.  Look at how often states changed hands during the decade .Look at the fact that Reagan’s support in both his elections was pretty uniform across the nation.


And during the 1980s probably the largest tax reform bill passed on bipartisan consensus
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,199


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2019, 12:31:19 AM »

Congress worked fine until Reagan got elected and inspired an entire generation of true believer legislative bomb throwers to go into politics. Polarization is primarily the GOP's fault but the media with its insistence on bothsidesism doesn't want to say so.

Yes, Polarization Is Asymmetric—and Conservatives Are Worse

Tribalism Isn’t Our Democracy’s Main Problem. The Conservative Movement Is.

Political Scientist: Republicans Most Conservative They've Been In 100 Years


The 1980s were one of the least polarizing decades since the 50s at least when it comes to the public.

 

The public is never polarized. The public has no deeply held political beliefs. It is the elites and activists who are polarized, not the public. For the umpteenth time....only the political parties are polarized.


Ok let me say voting patterns were the least polarizing in the 80s then it has in any decade since the 50s

Once again...voting patterns weren't that polarized in the 80s because the political elite that made-up the parties weren't polarized and still tried to find common ground. (remember this was before right wing talk radio and FOX ''news'') That shiit is gone today. Mitch McConnell is a sociopath who has no problem tearing down whatever norms exist in his way and Trump has no problem launching a borderline civil war to keep himself in office.

The voters have no real opinions on anything. Their opinions are whatever the party tells them to believe and under Trump, they will continue to be borderline insane with a fervent need to punish the other side for made-up reasons.

They were less polarizing the they were in the 60s and 70s as well .
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,199


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2019, 04:36:22 PM »


In that way that’s true but look at the fact that Reagan won huge landslides while Dems won big in Congress.  Look at how often states changed hands during the decade .Look at the fact that Reagan’s support in both his elections was pretty uniform across the nation.


And during the 1980s probably the largest tax reform bill passed on bipartisan consensus

Reagan won big landslides because of the economy. Most voters didn't even know what Reagan was campaigning on and the few who did didn't even like his policies.

Even then he won the largest electoral landslides since FDR in the 1930s (If you average out both his wins ).


Even IKE despite being a war hero and also presiding over a great economy didn’t win as large of a win
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,199


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2019, 01:33:38 AM »

Congress worked fine until Reagan got elected and inspired an entire generation of true believer legislative bomb throwers to go into politics. Polarization is primarily the GOP's fault but the media with its insistence on bothsidesism doesn't want to say so.

Yes, Polarization Is Asymmetric—and Conservatives Are Worse

Tribalism Isn’t Our Democracy’s Main Problem. The Conservative Movement Is.

Political Scientist: Republicans Most Conservative They've Been In 100 Years


The 1980s were one of the least polarizing decades since the 50s at least when it comes to the public.

 

The public is never polarized. The public has no deeply held political beliefs. It is the elites and activists who are polarized, not the public. For the umpteenth time....only the political parties are polarized.

Agree. But when it's these "activists" and parties, who decide everything, results are hardly normal. After all - theoretically parties must reflect thoughts and desires of the people. For US liberals Democratic party more or less does that (though even among liberal-leaning people not all will support "bold progressism" in every detail), the same - for conservatives and Republican party. But for other? Zero.

The problem with this viewpoint is that most voters dont have desires. They are essentially lemmings who's viewpoints are dictated by their identity and/or partisanship. Read this article for a better explanation.

We've all seen how Republican voters change positions on a whim just as long as Trump tells them to. Keep in mind that more ''informed'' voters are actually the biggest hacks of all. They are smart enough to know they are being hacks so they hide behind well written talking points. These are like the Trump supporters of Atlas who routinely change their mind when Trump does and just make up the reasoning as they go along.

That article is as convincing as it is true and depressing

And IF it's true - don't brag about "American democracy" over whole world anymore. Nothing to brag about... "Democracy of lemmings" isn't a good example....


The rest of the world is in even worse place
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,199


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2019, 03:24:18 AM »

Congress worked fine until Reagan got elected and inspired an entire generation of true believer legislative bomb throwers to go into politics. Polarization is primarily the GOP's fault but the media with its insistence on bothsidesism doesn't want to say so.

Yes, Polarization Is Asymmetric—and Conservatives Are Worse

Tribalism Isn’t Our Democracy’s Main Problem. The Conservative Movement Is.

Political Scientist: Republicans Most Conservative They've Been In 100 Years


The 1980s were one of the least polarizing decades since the 50s at least when it comes to the public.

 

The public is never polarized. The public has no deeply held political beliefs. It is the elites and activists who are polarized, not the public. For the umpteenth time....only the political parties are polarized.

Agree. But when it's these "activists" and parties, who decide everything, results are hardly normal. After all - theoretically parties must reflect thoughts and desires of the people. For US liberals Democratic party more or less does that (though even among liberal-leaning people not all will support "bold progressism" in every detail), the same - for conservatives and Republican party. But for other? Zero.

The problem with this viewpoint is that most voters dont have desires. They are essentially lemmings who's viewpoints are dictated by their identity and/or partisanship. Read this article for a better explanation.

We've all seen how Republican voters change positions on a whim just as long as Trump tells them to. Keep in mind that more ''informed'' voters are actually the biggest hacks of all. They are smart enough to know they are being hacks so they hide behind well written talking points. These are like the Trump supporters of Atlas who routinely change their mind when Trump does and just make up the reasoning as they go along.

That article is as convincing as it is true and depressing

And IF it's true - don't brag about "American democracy" over whole world anymore. Nothing to brag about... "Democracy of lemmings" isn't a good example....


The rest of the world is in even worse place

Even if so - at least they don't brag about their "virtues" over the world... And, with all gigantic problems we have in Russia - i frequently have a better choice of candidates here, then i would have in US, where person with my views would desperately chose not whom he likes more, but whom he hates less...


You only have one choice , Vladimir Putin .
Logged
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,199


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2019, 04:01:08 AM »

Congress worked fine until Reagan got elected and inspired an entire generation of true believer legislative bomb throwers to go into politics. Polarization is primarily the GOP's fault but the media with its insistence on bothsidesism doesn't want to say so.

Yes, Polarization Is Asymmetric—and Conservatives Are Worse

Tribalism Isn’t Our Democracy’s Main Problem. The Conservative Movement Is.

Political Scientist: Republicans Most Conservative They've Been In 100 Years


The 1980s were one of the least polarizing decades since the 50s at least when it comes to the public.

 

The public is never polarized. The public has no deeply held political beliefs. It is the elites and activists who are polarized, not the public. For the umpteenth time....only the political parties are polarized.

Agree. But when it's these "activists" and parties, who decide everything, results are hardly normal. After all - theoretically parties must reflect thoughts and desires of the people. For US liberals Democratic party more or less does that (though even among liberal-leaning people not all will support "bold progressism" in every detail), the same - for conservatives and Republican party. But for other? Zero.

The problem with this viewpoint is that most voters dont have desires. They are essentially lemmings who's viewpoints are dictated by their identity and/or partisanship. Read this article for a better explanation.

We've all seen how Republican voters change positions on a whim just as long as Trump tells them to. Keep in mind that more ''informed'' voters are actually the biggest hacks of all. They are smart enough to know they are being hacks so they hide behind well written talking points. These are like the Trump supporters of Atlas who routinely change their mind when Trump does and just make up the reasoning as they go along.

That article is as convincing as it is true and depressing

And IF it's true - don't brag about "American democracy" over whole world anymore. Nothing to brag about... "Democracy of lemmings" isn't a good example....


The rest of the world is in even worse place

Even if so - at least they don't brag about their "virtues" over the world... And, with all gigantic problems we have in Russia - i frequently have a better choice of candidates here, then i would have in US, where person with my views would desperately chose not whom he likes more, but whom he hates less...


You only have one choice , Vladimir Putin .

Idiocy. We have elections to Duma (national and Moscow)  and lot of local elections too. American idiots, who think that Russia = Putin - well, idiots are the same everywhere...


In a Presidential Election yes thats all you have.



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