Why was Prop 187 considered racist and xenophobic

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_187


I mean all it really did was prohibit illegal immigrants(key word is illegal immigrant) from receiving non-emergency public services. One of the best way to solve the issue actually is not by deportation or a wall but by getting rid of the incentive of illegal immigration which by enforcing an everify system(so illegal immigrants cant get jobs) and cutting of public services.

If you were a legal immigrant this prop didnt affect you one bit, it only affected people here who came illegally.



This was not CA version of Arizona SB 1070 which definitely was xenophobic and should not have been enacted

[OSR stands with Israel]

A. It was blatantly trying to get the brown people out, B. the biggest reason we legally accept so few(thus forcing people to go undocumented) is racism against mexicans, C. the hysteria about undocumented workers is motivated entirely by their brownness/otherness, lets be honest, and D. Undocumented workers have a right to basic things like education and healthcare. And a third of this bills victims are children.

A: The prop only applied if you were an illegal immigrant

B : America has one of the most generous immigration systems in the world and actually a merit based system(though not the proposal Tom Cotton had ) would be better

C: No it’s based on rule of law and in my opinion

Legal Immigration= Good
Illegal Immigration = Bad

D: Well it didn’t deny them from receiving healthcare in the first place , education yes but their parents should not receive non emergency gov benefits

[OSR stands with Israel]

It wasn't but even illegals at least need some form of governmental assistance (including making school hard for children of illegal immigrants), meaning the law should have been opposed.

Also, Prop 187 was hardly the reason to why CA turned democratic which is a laughable claim.

It wasn’t the reason CA turned Democratic but it certainly helps them. The real reason CA turned dem was the collapse of defense industry, religious right taking over the gop and then it became titanium dem due to the Bush years and Arnold getting blamed for the 2009-2010 budget crises .

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_187


I mean all it really did was prohibit illegal immigrants(key word is illegal immigrant) from receiving non-emergency public services. One of the best way to solve the issue actually is not by deportation or a wall but by getting rid of the incentive of illegal immigration which by enforcing an everify system(so illegal immigrants cant get jobs) and cutting of public services.

If you were a legal immigrant this prop didnt affect you one bit, it only affected people here who came illegally.



This was not CA version of Arizona SB 1070 which definitely was xenophobic and should not have been enacted

The only way to enforce such a system is an invasive and ubiquitious ID system. My older relatives didn't fight WWII so your racist, fascist cult can  waltz around saying "Papers, please".

And that wasn't the only thing wrong with it.

Um no as for jobs they can just enforce E Verify, and for benefits, they can ask for legal status on the application and require you to show proof at a similar office to the DMV where you would go submit the application. States like Oregon and California at the time which ban illegal immigrants from getting state issued ID's(https://ballotpedia.org/Oregon_Alternative_Driver_Licenses_Referendum,_Measure_88_(2014)) would only require you to show your state issued ID for proof.

This is not the Arizona law where cops or law enforcement and stop a random person and ask for their papers.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Can we please stop saying “illegals”?

What would you prefer?

Undocumented immigrants. Or at least illegal immigrants if you can't do that much.

Why are you okay with illegal immigrants but not illegals?

Because the first implies “people who immigrated illegally”, while the second implies “people who are illegal”, and people aren’t illegal.

They are if they’re here illegally.

No, they’re not. By that standard, anyone (including you) who has committed any crime or any municipal violation is an “illegal”.

Ok I used the phrase illegal immigrant not illegal so

[OSR stands with Israel]

Looking at the map of that prop Im pretty surprised LA County voted for it as well.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Looking at the map of that prop Im pretty surprised LA County voted for it as well.

At that time the county was more conservative outside of the city of Los Angeles (minus the San Fernando Valley). It was similar Harris County, Texas is right now.

I thought LA county had become Democratic by then as


HW lost LA County in 1988 by 5 points

[OSR stands with Israel]

Looking at the map of that prop Im pretty surprised LA County voted for it as well.

At that time the county was more conservative outside of the city of Los Angeles (minus the San Fernando Valley). It was similar Harris County, Texas is right now.

I thought LA county had become Democratic by then as


HW lost LA County in 1988 by 5 points

I believe they’re referring to the cities inside LA county that surround the city of Los Angeles.

But the county as a whole  still voted for prop 187 while they voted against HW by 5 points and had trended left since 1988

[OSR stands with Israel]

Something interesting about Prop 187 I saw (an article from October 1994):

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-15/news/mn-50380_1_illegal-immigrants/2



So the fact is it was the media who made it seem like a racist prop

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why do people always think being anti-illegal immigration is being against immigration.


Illegal Immigration = Against the Law

Legal Immigration = By Definition Legal

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why do people always think being anti-illegal immigration is being against immigration.


Illegal Immigration = Against the Law

Legal Immigration = By Definition Legal

Well for starters, prominent GOP politicians have increasingly started dropping all pretenses and openly coming out against both the former and the latter.

But back to the topic at hand, why should a child be banned from attending school because of their parent’s immigration status?

Mitt Romney was called anti-immigrant as well , despite having a pretty pro-legal immigration stance. So the fact is you guys helped get it to this point by saying anti-illegal immigration efforts are anti-immigrant.

While I oppose that part of the prop the rest of the prop I agree with and really the only part that should have been struck down was the school one.

Lastly look at the poll from October 1994 I cited: Even Hispanics were over 40% in support of prop 187 before the media started screaming how racist it was and then Democrats jumped on that bandwagon as well and by mid 1995 prop 187 was viewed as racist.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why do people always think being anti-illegal immigration is being against immigration.


Illegal Immigration = Against the Law

Legal Immigration = By Definition Legal

Because the people who rail against illegal immigration are just as much against illegal immigration for exactly the same reasons. This is born out by President Trump declaring a full-on war and taking numerous numerous sod actions to curtail legal immigration. It is all about reducing the non-white ratio of the American population, nothing more nothing less.

I realize this is a very difficult issue for you, osr. You are I believe either an immigrant or son of immigrants, but at the same time a devoted Republican with obvious internal anxiety over the issue how the political party you so assiduously align yourself with discriminates against people like you. The fact that your parents got in Legally, however, does not change the fact by 1iota that the Republican party has and is aggressively, perhaps as their primary reason for being, trying to keep people like you and your family out of this country by any means necessary.

Genuinely sorry, old chap, but reality is a b****.

Mitt Romney had a plan that was really  pro legal immigration but the left and the media still called him anti immigrant .

Also many people on the left including some on here are more likely to be favor of amnesty than be in favor of H1B visas . Bernie Sanders is an example of one politician who favors amnesty yet opposed H1B visas for years .

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why do people always think being anti-illegal immigration is being against immigration.


Illegal Immigration = Against the Law

Legal Immigration = By Definition Legal

Because the people who rail against illegal immigration are just as much against illegal immigration for exactly the same reasons. This is born out by President Trump declaring a full-on war and taking numerous numerous sod actions to curtail legal immigration. It is all about reducing the non-white ratio of the American population, nothing more nothing less.

I realize this is a very difficult issue for you, osr. You are I believe either an immigrant or son of immigrants, but at the same time a devoted Republican with obvious internal anxiety over the issue how the political party you so assiduously align yourself with discriminates against people like you. The fact that your parents got in Legally, however, does not change the fact by 1iota that the Republican party has and is aggressively, perhaps as their primary reason for being, trying to keep people like you and your family out of this country by any means necessary.

Genuinely sorry, old chap, but reality is a b****.

Mitt Romney had a plan that was really  pro legal immigration but the left and the media still called him anti immigrant .

Also many people on the left including some on here are more likely to be favor of amnesty than be in favor of H1B visas . Bernie Sanders is an example of one politician who favors amnesty yet opposed H1B visas for years .

As Elton once sang, Whatever Gets You Through the Night

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/25/this-is-a-massive-effort-to-attract-cheap-labor-why-sen-bernie-sanders-is-skeptical-of-guest-workers/?utm_term=.fdbae6c537e6


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/blogs/run-2016/2015/07/30/sanders-wall-street-wants-immigration-reform-to-depress-wages%3fcontext=amp

So Bernie supports giving amnesty to illegal immigrants while he has this position.



Here’s Mitt Romney’s position who the left called anti immigrant:


http://www.h1bwiki.com/mitt-romney-staple-green-cards-with-advanced-degree/

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why do liberals love illegals better than legals? That's the real question here. 

Because that's not true outside of your imagination.

The real question is why do Republicans dislike legal immigration only marginally less than illegal immigration?

Mitt Romney didn’t and Obama and the Liberal Media still said he was anti immigrant 

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why do liberals love illegals better than legals? That's the real question here.  

Because that's not true outside of your imagination.

The real question is why do Republicans dislike legal immigration only marginally less than illegal immigration?

Mitt Romney didn’t and Obama and the Liberal Media still said he was anti immigrant  

Mitt Romney is not the public face of your party’s position on immigration. Donald Trump is.

Thanks to the years of the left saying that being anti-illegal immigration was being anti-immigrant.


So the crying wolf story apples here as people eventually just thought when people say anti-immigrant they just mean anti-illegal immigrant even if they are actually anti-immigration

[OSR stands with Israel]

Why do liberals love illegals better than legals? That's the real question here.  

Because that's not true outside of your imagination.

The real question is why do Republicans dislike legal immigration only marginally less than illegal immigration?

Mitt Romney didn’t and Obama and the Liberal Media still said he was anti immigrant  

Mitt Romney is not the public face of your party’s position on immigration. Donald Trump is.

Thanks to the years of the left saying that being anti-illegal immigration was being anti-immigrant.


So the crying wolf story apples here as people eventually just thought when people say anti-immigrant they just mean anti-illegal immigrant even if they are actually anti-immigration

So it's the left that's responsible for Donald Trump being the face of the Republican party and its immigration policy, not the Republican Party itself. Got it.

Look, I get it. It's very difficult to passionately support a party that most members look at you and your family and secretly wish you were not in this country. But I'm afraid Atlas can't be your therapist on this issue. It's just something you're going to have to work through on your own, and setting Mitt Romney, mr. Self-deportation, is it supposed pro-immigrant figure, isn't going to assist you in this Quest.

Mitt Romney quote was taken completely out of context and if you actually listen to the whole quote , it was a totally reasonable policy proposal but as usual the media and the left only showed you only little soundbite from that quote .


By the way yes they deserve part of the blame for Trump as they failed to pass immigration reform  during the 8 years before they took office . Maybe they should have given this compromise: no path to citizenship for any illegal immigrant only a pathway to permanent residency or done immigration reform in 2009 or 2010 when they had the votes to pass it

Republicans also deserve the blame too for passing nothing under Bush as well,  but Trump didn't come out of a vacuum he came because many problems which had failed to be solved for solved were not even being attempted to be solved let alone actually solving them.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Mitt Romney quote was taken completely out of context and if you actually listen to the whole quote , it was a totally reasonable policy proposal but as usual the media and the left only showed you only little soundbite from that quote .


By the way yes they deserve part of the blame for Trump as they failed to pass immigration reform  during the 8 years before they took office . Maybe they should have given this compromise: no path to citizenship for any illegal immigrant only a pathway to permanent residency or done immigration reform in 2009 or 2010 when they had the votes to pass it

Republicans also deserve the blame too for passing nothing under Bush as well,  but Trump didn't come out of a vacuum he came because many problems which had failed to be solved for solved were not even being attempted to be solved let alone actually solving them.

If only the Democrats had capitulated to the Republicans on immigration, we wouldn't have Trump. It's so clear now! And I really hate how everyone is always like, "if only Democrats had done [this] with their brief super-majority in 2009-2010...!" Yes, if only they had done a million things different people think they should have done.

Quit passing the buck for your party subjecting America to this insanity.

I’m not ,

I am just saying that Trump never would have even been elected if previous presidents had solved the problem . Also why is that compromise a capitulation

[OSR stands with Israel]

Mitt Romney quote was taken completely out of context and if you actually listen to the whole quote , it was a totally reasonable policy proposal but as usual the media and the left only showed you only little soundbite from that quote .


By the way yes they deserve part of the blame for Trump as they failed to pass immigration reform  during the 8 years before they took office . Maybe they should have given this compromise: no path to citizenship for any illegal immigrant only a pathway to permanent residency or done immigration reform in 2009 or 2010 when they had the votes to pass it

Republicans also deserve the blame too for passing nothing under Bush as well,  but Trump didn't come out of a vacuum he came because many problems which had failed to be solved for solved were not even being attempted to be solved let alone actually solving them.

If only the Democrats had capitulated to the Republicans on immigration, we wouldn't have Trump. It's so clear now! And I really hate how everyone is always like, "if only Democrats had done [this] with their brief super-majority in 2009-2010...!" Yes, if only they had done a million things different people think they should have done.

Quit passing the buck for your party subjecting America to this insanity.

I’m not ,

I am just saying that Trump never would have even been elected if previous presidents had solved the problem . Also why is that compromise a capitulation

If I recall, one of them tried to do just that 5 years ago...hmm, I wonder why that effort failed.

Because of the Democrats, obviously. Duh!

Maybe if there was a deal which offered permanent residence instead of citizenship it could have supported bipartisanly

[OSR stands with Israel]

Mitt Romney quote was taken completely out of context and if you actually listen to the whole quote , it was a totally reasonable policy proposal but as usual the media and the left only showed you only little soundbite from that quote .


By the way yes they deserve part of the blame for Trump as they failed to pass immigration reform  during the 8 years before they took office . Maybe they should have given this compromise: no path to citizenship for any illegal immigrant only a pathway to permanent residency or done immigration reform in 2009 or 2010 when they had the votes to pass it

Republicans also deserve the blame too for passing nothing under Bush as well,  but Trump didn't come out of a vacuum he came because many problems which had failed to be solved for solved were not even being attempted to be solved let alone actually solving them.

If only the Democrats had capitulated to the Republicans on immigration, we wouldn't have Trump. It's so clear now! And I really hate how everyone is always like, "if only Democrats had done [this] with their brief super-majority in 2009-2010...!" Yes, if only they had done a million things different people think they should have done.

Quit passing the buck for your party subjecting America to this insanity.

I’m not ,

I am just saying that Trump never would have even been elected if previous presidents had solved the problem . Also why is that compromise a capitulation

If I recall, one of them tried to do just that 5 years ago...hmm, I wonder why that effort failed.

Because of the Democrats, obviously. Duh!

Maybe if there was a deal which offered permanent residence instead of citizenship it could have supported bipartisanly

There should be no compromise on immigration with the GOP as they've shown their not serious about the matter (or serious about governing in general). The Republican Party had no problem giving Cubans immediate US citizenship right after arriving on shore as long as they voted 90% GOP. The whole reason Republicans are opposed to a pathway to citizenship is because it would add millions of new voters who obviously wont be voting GOP.

Cuban refugees came here legally and they did not get immediate citizenship(they had to wait 5 years after they got their green cards)

[OSR stands with Israel]

Mitt Romney quote was taken completely out of context and if you actually listen to the whole quote , it was a totally reasonable policy proposal but as usual the media and the left only showed you only little soundbite from that quote .


By the way yes they deserve part of the blame for Trump as they failed to pass immigration reform  during the 8 years before they took office . Maybe they should have given this compromise: no path to citizenship for any illegal immigrant only a pathway to permanent residency or done immigration reform in 2009 or 2010 when they had the votes to pass it

Republicans also deserve the blame too for passing nothing under Bush as well,  but Trump didn't come out of a vacuum he came because many problems which had failed to be solved for solved were not even being attempted to be solved let alone actually solving them.

If only the Democrats had capitulated to the Republicans on immigration, we wouldn't have Trump. It's so clear now! And I really hate how everyone is always like, "if only Democrats had done [this] with their brief super-majority in 2009-2010...!" Yes, if only they had done a million things different people think they should have done.

Quit passing the buck for your party subjecting America to this insanity.

I’m not ,

I am just saying that Trump never would have even been elected if previous presidents had solved the problem . Also why is that compromise a capitulation

If I recall, one of them tried to do just that 5 years ago...hmm, I wonder why that effort failed.

Because of the Democrats, obviously. Duh!

Maybe if there was a deal which offered permanent residence instead of citizenship it could have supported bipartisanly

There should be no compromise on immigration with the GOP as they've shown their not serious about the matter (or serious about governing in general). The Republican Party had no problem giving Cubans immediate US citizenship right after arriving on shore as long as they voted 90% GOP. The whole reason Republicans are opposed to a pathway to citizenship is because it would add millions of new voters who obviously wont be voting GOP.

Cuban refugees came here legally and they did not get immediate citizenship(they had to wait 5 years after they got their green cards)

You. Are. Completely. Missing. The. Point. The reason they were able to come here legally because I gave them preferential treatment. There was no basis for doing so other than politics. There is no basis to deny similar treatment for other Central American refugees. Both times being played by the GOP. This isn't hard to understand.

prop 187 and Romney self deportation comments(which were totally overblown) only applied to ones illegally here.

Mitt Romney himself had a plan which would have made the legal immigration system but the left called it anti immigrant because of those comments lmao.


I am on the belief that Illegal Immigrants should not get  citizenship, only permenat residency. Only exception should be the DACA recipetns but the ones who knowingly came here illegally should never ever be eligible for citizenship .

[OSR stands with Israel]

Mitt Romney quote was taken completely out of context and if you actually listen to the whole quote , it was a totally reasonable policy proposal but as usual the media and the left only showed you only little soundbite from that quote .


By the way yes they deserve part of the blame for Trump as they failed to pass immigration reform  during the 8 years before they took office . Maybe they should have given this compromise: no path to citizenship for any illegal immigrant only a pathway to permanent residency or done immigration reform in 2009 or 2010 when they had the votes to pass it

Republicans also deserve the blame too for passing nothing under Bush as well,  but Trump didn't come out of a vacuum he came because many problems which had failed to be solved for solved were not even being attempted to be solved let alone actually solving them.

If only the Democrats had capitulated to the Republicans on immigration, we wouldn't have Trump. It's so clear now! And I really hate how everyone is always like, "if only Democrats had done [this] with their brief super-majority in 2009-2010...!" Yes, if only they had done a million things different people think they should have done.

Quit passing the buck for your party subjecting America to this insanity.

I’m not ,

I am just saying that Trump never would have even been elected if previous presidents had solved the problem . Also why is that compromise a capitulation

If I recall, one of them tried to do just that 5 years ago...hmm, I wonder why that effort failed.

Because of the Democrats, obviously. Duh!

Maybe if there was a deal which offered permanent residence instead of citizenship it could have supported bipartisanly

"Oh, if only SOMEONE will pass immigration reform. Oh, why oh why hasn't it happened"
...
"Not that kind of reform!"

Well if it was in 2013 thats the type of reform which should have been brought up.


If you wanted to do one with citizenship it should have been done in 2009-2010