Trump proposes 35% import tariff on products made by US companies abroad

[The_Doctor]

He doesn't understand economics. Namely: he doesn't understand that they won't keep the jobs here. If they just won't be allowed to send it to Mexico or Japan, they turn to automation. Consumers will not allow higher prices and they can't offload their jobs ... so automation just accelerates.

In a sense, I'm going to actually enjoy this economic braindead strategy. It will bring about the automation age much faster.

[The_Doctor]

Nice way to give the advantage to non-U.S. companies.

Precisely why China should just sit down and shut up. 

That too.

[The_Doctor]

I've never understood how making things cost more for everybody is a winning electoral strategy.

Last post. Until some Branch Trumpidian weighs in with some entertaining idiocy.

It boils down to the average Midwesterner going "MUH FACTORY! CLOSED! JERBS TO MEXICO/CHINA/(random Asian nation)!"

[The_Doctor]

I've never understood how making things cost more for everybody is a winning electoral strategy.

Last post. Until some Branch Trumpidian weighs in with some entertaining idiocy.

It boils down to the average Midwesterner going "MUH FACTORY! CLOSED! JERBS TO MEXICO/CHINA/(random Asian nation)!"

People like you disgust me. You are talking about millions of Americans who lost jobs, and hundreds of towns that have been destroyed all so you could let capitalists exploit labor in nations with lower standards for human rights, workers rights, and environmental regulations. Your whole argument boils down to "muh cheap iphones! Who cares about human rights, or the environment, I want muh cheap iphones!"

1. I dont care. That is however accurate on my opinion.

2. I don't care about human rights in the third world in the slightest. I care solely about our economy and the health of the global economy. 

3. Yes, I prioritize cheap goods. That's because they're a benefit to our economy.  We aren't the great factories of the 1950s.  We produce twice as more goods with 1/3 the workers.  That's not going to stop. That shouldn't stop either. Its great for us.

4. Fair trade deals won't stop the bleeding. Nothing will. Automation will only accelerate and require highly skilled workers in our factories.  Limiting immigration won't really help either unless you think Americans are cool with fruit picking.

The intelligent thing is to adapt. Not try to stop the job losses. Our economy hasn't been manufacturing oriented since John Kennedy and won't be again.

5. Have I said I don't care?

[The_Doctor]

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I don't agree with a minimum wage as it so happens. It's inefficient and only 5% of jobs are minimum wage. I'd rather focus on creating educated people to generate naturally high paying jobs.

 I think safety regulations and the minimum to keep factories running should be there. 

As for slave labor, no. Pay the workers what the market says they're worth. 

And yeah I'm a total 100% common world market free trader.

[The_Doctor]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't agree with a minimum wage as it so happens. It's inefficient and only 5% of jobs are minimum wage. I'd rather focus on creating educated people to generate naturally high paying jobs.

 I think safety regulations and the minimum to keep factories running should be there. 

As for slave labor, no. Pay the workers what the market says they're worth. 

And yeah I'm a total 100% common world market free trader.

How can you claim to be against slave labor when you just said you don't care about human rights in the third world in the slightest, you prioritize getting the cheapest goods?

Actually strictly speaking, if you mean 20 cents a day in China labor, I don't care. That's their problem not mine. In that context I dont care about human rights. 

However actual slavery is abhorrent. And obviously I disagree with rhat. 

[The_Doctor]

A quick economic lesson in free trade. The market will gradually raise wages and we benefit China and Asia with our free trade agreements. They get jobs that wouldn't exist otherwise. That's really why I don't care about “slave wages” and the liberal hysteria about their conditions. Without free trade they wouldn't have jobs in the first place.

Anyway….

As their economies expand, wages will go up. That will in turn make pricing more expensive but presumably both the US and Asian economies will be rich enough to sustain it (or we'll all have largely automated factories that keep prices cheap).

[The_Doctor]

I have no problem with nations using their lower cost of living as a way to entice manufacturers with cheaper labor. It's when you combine that cheap labor, with an authoritarian government, and you deny the workers the ability to vote for their representatives, and deny them the ability to ensure a safe workplace with reasonable working hours, or to keep their environment from being destroyed, that I have a problem.

By keeping workers in a country like that from improving their own conditions, you essentially have a thumb on the scale preventing the balancing out between trade partners that the "free traders" say is supposed to ultimately happen.

Cutting them off or threatening them won't weaken the authoritarian regimes though. All it does is make them crack down. The only way that might not hold is if they're internally weak (e.g China might be a little structurally weaker right now).

Do I think its in our best interests to have democratic nations with representative governments? Yes. So I agree with the United States being aggressive towards China in terms of enforcing democratic norms.

When I say I don't care about human rights I mean in terms of as long as they're democracies I don't care about the local laws. I'd say that democratic traditions and rule of law should be present. I don't see democratic rights as human rights as much as structural foundations that are essential but I suppose they're human rights in some sense.  

I think our engagement with China has made some progress in terms of property rights (which I find absolutely essential).

[The_Doctor]

Defined as if you're working in 20 cent conditions as long as your nation is democratic and bans slavery and the usual bad things? Pretty much. Slavery, child trafficking, child labor are all bad things and should be banned. You working 15 hour days in a sweatshop in Asia doesn't bother me as much.