The utter irrelevance of "more Republicans than Democrats voted for the CRA" (user search)
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  The utter irrelevance of "more Republicans than Democrats voted for the CRA" (search mode)
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Author Topic: The utter irrelevance of "more Republicans than Democrats voted for the CRA"  (Read 1360 times)
RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,063
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« on: April 25, 2016, 08:04:01 PM »

Waiting for RINO Tom and/or Oldiesfreak to come in and "educate" all of us ignorant Democrats, liberals and Southerners about our own history. Any minute now.

Sure thing.  The majority of those Republicans were considered standard conservatives of their day, a prime example being Sen. Dirksen of my home state who arguably played the most influential role in the bill's passage.  I'll give our OP the credit he deserves for not throwing the "fact" out there that those Republicans were "liberals."  Additionally, I find it frustrating that armchair historians constantly point to defections of people like Strom Thurmond to the GOP as this indisputable evidence that ever the passage of the CRA the two parties just became these ridiculously different entities, yet somehow the fact that all but one of those Southern Democratic Senators remained with the party their entire careers (for God's sake, one was the Congressional leader in 2009!) is "irrelevant" (just like, apparently, the fact that the GOP was responsible for the margin of victory with the CRA).  I wouldn't be simplistic enough to present this as a simple cause-and-effect analysis, but the fact remains that there is a direct relationship between integration becoming more accepted in the South and Democrats losing power in the region to the GOP.  To act like a "reinforcement" of anti-civil rights Republicans offered themselves as replacements for Dixiecrats is just simply untrue.

No one is saying that the CRA didn't open up politics in the South.  Segregationist voters obviously no longer had a national party willing to cater to segregationist thought (they really hadn't for quite a while), but that realization clearly didn't cause them to no longer send Democrats to DC for 30 freakin' years or anything.  Post-1964, Southerners had the choice between sending back largely "socially conservative" Democrats who more or less voted with their Northern counterparts on economic issues or a deeply conservative Republican candidate ... they made their preference known - well, that is, until enough of them died off and Republicans could finally win elections outside of the South's emerging suburbs.

And for the love of God, do not lump me in with Oldiesfreak.  I have never presented the GOP as this fiercely pro-civil rights party during that era.  Congressional Republicans largely only supported civil rights measures that would affect only Dixie (aka not their mostly suburban Northern consitituents).  The GOP watered down every major civil rights bill during the '50s and '60s to an acceptable point for small business owners and suburban parents who had no problem at scoffing at the backwards South but weren't dying to have a bunch of Black people move in next door ... but while not noble, that's a different animal than Southern Democrats who straight-up opposed the idea of civil rights in nature.

The Dixiecrats didn't switch parties, they died.  And when they were finally out of the way, a new generation of Southerners didn't see much appeal in a Democratic Party that had changed its cultural tone and whose main arguments were "well, remember FDR!  The South has always been Democratic!", and while that worked better than its GOP counterpart of "Black people, vote for us because Reconstruction!", it was bound to fail eventually.
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RINO Tom
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*****
Posts: 17,063
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2016, 08:09:03 PM »

Waiting for RINO Tom and/or Oldiesfreak to come in and "educate" all of us ignorant Democrats, liberals and Southerners about our own history. Any minute now.

Have you met Rockefeller GOP?  He probably does this the most of the bunch.  A couple years ago he was still referring to Arkansas and West Virginia as "Democrat states" which had a great chance of going for Hillary; granted, he wasn't the only one (many Dem hacks did too), but he seemed to be wistfully yearning for the Dixiecrats to go away.  Honestly, I like the Dixiecrats.  Sure, they used to be on the wrong side of history, but I like their values for the most part:  love God and country, not PC, want to keep their own money, and don't want the country flooded with illegals.  I'm glad they're on our team.

Sadly, this meme of Dixiexrats becoming loyal Republicans after 1964 is comfortable and serves the interests of several groups (aka it's pushed as truth constantly), as it absolves liberal Northern Democrats of pandering to racists for years, it justifies to Black voters why they vote the way they do and I suppose it could be spun as a nice little justification for regressive voters like yourself whose main ideology is being uncomfortable with people who ain't like you.
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RINO Tom
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*****
Posts: 17,063
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2016, 09:20:13 PM »

Unless you're fine with calling their racism strictly conservative (which I'm simply not, so we can chalk this conversation up as pointless), then I'm not seein' it.  Compared to Northern Whites (where the blue laws originated, where prohibition was huge), they weren't markedly more conservative.  They certainly weren't more "conservative" on economic issues.
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RINO Tom
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*****
Posts: 17,063
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2016, 04:43:06 PM »

Okay, then you're operating under the assumption that small government and local control is inherently conservative, another premise I wholeheartedly reject.  It's that kind of thinking that places Hamilton to the left of Jefferson, completely ignoring motive and totally focusing on method.  Arguing that increased infrastructure spending like the transcontinental railroad will only help elite business types at the expense of the people IS NOT in the same vein as arguing increased public funding for roads in 21st Century America is excessive spending.  That's just one example of how a small or big government METHOD can be attractive to opposing groups depending on the circumstances, another being how the business community of the 1800s pushed protectionism while the business community of today pushes free trade - they're opposite "policies" pushed for the exact same reason/motive.
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