What will be the status of Abortion in the year 2115? (user search)
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  What will be the status of Abortion in the year 2115? (search mode)
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Author Topic: What will be the status of Abortion in the year 2115?  (Read 4025 times)
RINO Tom
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« on: March 27, 2016, 08:36:58 AM »

I don't see it being illegal, not in the U.S. at least if atheism is on the rise like it is now.

Not to nitpick, but atheism isn't really on the rise at all.  Leaving organized religion is, but poll after poll shows that a large majority of "Nones" believe in a higher power/creator of sorts.

Anyway, I really have no idea.  Fascinating to think about.  I could easily see a future where "liberals" are very pro-life ... would have made sense from the start.
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,063
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Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2016, 04:37:03 PM »

The Same way people view slavery today will be similar to how abortion will be viewed as later

While I disagree with this on so many levels, it is definitely interesting to look back at the beginning of the pro-life movement.  It's supporters absolutely branded themselves as the ideological descendants of the abolitionists, arguing that the characterization of fetuses as less than human and undeserving of full rights was eerily similar to how proponents of slavery spoke of Blacks ("Northern Republicans care so much about these slaves but couldn't care less about starving Irish immigrants in NYC" isn't a dramatically different criticism in style than "Republicans are pro-life until the baby leaves the womb, then they don't care").

Again, I do not adhere to the comparison.  At all.  But it's worth noting that that's how they felt.
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,063
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Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2016, 10:27:01 PM »

The Same way people view slavery today will be similar to how abortion will be viewed as later

While I disagree with this on so many levels, it is definitely interesting to look back at the beginning of the pro-life movement.  It's supporters absolutely branded themselves as the ideological descendants of the abolitionists, arguing that the characterization of fetuses as less than human and undeserving of full rights was eerily similar to how proponents of slavery spoke of Blacks ("Northern Republicans care so much about these slaves but couldn't care less about starving Irish immigrants in NYC" isn't a dramatically different criticism in style than "Republicans are pro-life until the baby leaves the womb, then they don't care").

Again, I do not adhere to the comparison.  At all.  But it's worth noting that that's how they felt.
Many still argue it that way.

It wasn't quite as "in" for Democratic partisans to push the party-switch narrative back then, so I think it was a more respected comparison.
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,063
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Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2017, 11:09:58 AM »

Great question, and brilliant, well-thought out alternative scenarios.

2115 is a long way away.

I think one major factor will be the role of Islam in the West. Abortion does not seem to me to be a "signature" issue in Islam, as it is in the Roman Catholic Church and among Evangelicals. Still, especially considering the evolving relationship between Western feminism and Islam, it is difficult to predict how Islam will tilt the discussion / legal status of abortion.

Leaving the role of Islam aside, certain predictions can be made.

1. Even people who are personally pro-life will be less and less supportive of laws that prohibit abortion or make its access difficult.

2. Pro-life crisis pregnancy centers will still be a thing, existing alongside groups such as Planned Parenthood. Sadly, and to the detriment of women and children, these two groups will still see each other as enemies, rather than allies in the fight against unwanted pregnancy and for dignity of pregnant women and new mothers, and their children.

3. Legal opposition to abortion will be pretty much confined to conservative, practicing Catholics and (white) Evangelicals.

4. It will be legal, and about as prevalent as today (though the declining number of abortion practitioners will make access difficult for many women, particularly rural and poor women), and will be a less discussed issue. As of June 2017, I believe both sides have pretty much played themselves out.

A comparison was made between the abortion and slavery. I believe abortion will be more like the drinking issue: such a major issue 100 years ago, hardly a blip now.

I really hope you're right; I was just making the point that you can take historical politics and spin the narrative in any way you want.  Hard not to see some continuity between a hypothetical Democratic criticism of either position in both eras, which is exactly how the first militant pro-life voters saw it.
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,063
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2017, 01:38:50 PM »

Great question, and brilliant, well-thought out alternative scenarios.

2115 is a long way away.

I think one major factor will be the role of Islam in the West. Abortion does not seem to me to be a "signature" issue in Islam, as it is in the Roman Catholic Church and among Evangelicals. Still, especially considering the evolving relationship between Western feminism and Islam, it is difficult to predict how Islam will tilt the discussion / legal status of abortion.

Leaving the role of Islam aside, certain predictions can be made.

1. Even people who are personally pro-life will be less and less supportive of laws that prohibit abortion or make its access difficult.

2. Pro-life crisis pregnancy centers will still be a thing, existing alongside groups such as Planned Parenthood. Sadly, and to the detriment of women and children, these two groups will still see each other as enemies, rather than allies in the fight against unwanted pregnancy and for dignity of pregnant women and new mothers, and their children.

3. Legal opposition to abortion will be pretty much confined to conservative, practicing Catholics and (white) Evangelicals.

4. It will be legal, and about as prevalent as today (though the declining number of abortion practitioners will make access difficult for many women, particularly rural and poor women), and will be a less discussed issue. As of June 2017, I believe both sides have pretty much played themselves out.

A comparison was made between the abortion and slavery. I believe abortion will be more like the drinking issue: such a major issue 100 years ago, hardly a blip now.

I really hope you're right; I was just making the point that you can take historical politics and spin the narrative in any way you want.  Hard not to see some continuity between a hypothetical Democratic criticism of either position in both eras, which is exactly how the first militant pro-life voters saw it.

So abortion will either
1) Still a the cluster4uck it is today.
2) An issue like slavery, where, probably through a major disaster, the fetus's right to not be aborted becomes one of the cornerstones of Western Law and Ethics.
3) Like the last long failed war on Drugs in the 20s, where people use it as a case study of why freedom works and Government regulation fails and just causes more suffering.   

Pretty much!  I tend to think #3 is most likely (I'm biased), but I don't think enough pro-choice people are willing to entertain the similarities militant pro-lifers (possibly correctly??) can draw for #2.  Abolition, at its foundation, had deeply religious and moralist drivers.
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RINO Tom
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Posts: 17,063
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Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2017, 08:55:57 AM »

Legal, not a political issue, both parties are ok with it, actually favored due to massive planetary overpopulation, growing tech/holo-introverted societies, and dwindling resources. Additionally, you start to see countries contemplate and actually pass laws in favor of one-child policies again.

That seems like a logical prediction of how things will be 100 years from now, but there have been so many curve balls thrown between even 1965 and 2015...or even 1995 and 2015.

Why?  I mean, I hope that abortion becomes safe, legal and rare pretty much everywhere, but there isn't a lot of evidence that public opinion has moved decidedly in a pro-choice trend (quite the opposite over the last 30 years), and this view of the future being echoed by so many hinges upon the assumption that people won't look back on abortion as something people "started to realize was morally wrong but took time to become outlawed" ala slavery.  I don't THINK that's going to happen, but the fact that people can't entertain that turn of events, given history, is kind of baffling.
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