Obama on Small-Town Pennsylvania...

[Lunar]

I agree with the comments.  AND there is a Republican side to the comments as well: Many white suburban housewives who don't have to worry at all about economic issues are also very inclined to ignore them and start to organize for PETA or NOW.  They don't have anything better to do besides organize on single-issue liberal suburban social politics.  Include Mothers Against Drunk Driving, people against gambling, etcetera in here too.

Watch the Obama, Clinton, and McCain camps spin this into full gear.  This is an issue that Obama's rivals will try and grab hold of and one that Obama's camp will stage a counter-offense based on their remarks (and already has).  I've been impressed with the language coming out of Obama surrogates and Obama himself thus far post-comment.

[Lunar]

Mr Diamond, one cannot improve the overall standard of living, except by increasing the skills of those who work. So yes, education and good work habits are job one (that is why we need a total revamping of our secondary school system, particularly in non elite zip codes). A more robust poaching of the best and brightest from abroad will be an interim palliative, but not a long term one. The rest is all counterproductive. It over the longer term, will degrade economic well being, not enhance it. The harsh mistress of comparative economic advantage must rule. The alternative is economic failure, and relative penury, vis a vis those who respect the mistress.  Politicians beyond the realm suggested, and mere driftwood in a rapid stream as it were, helpless and useless, except to do damage.

This is completely correct  except that comparative advantage isn't as harsh as you depict it except when it's too rapid for workers to be able to retrain themselves into fields that America's actually good at (superconductors, aircraft, chemicals top the list).

People can't seem to get over the fact that modernizing our economy inevitably yields winners (Texas) and losers (Rustbelt).  There are more winners than losers and she's only a harsh mistress if you have a family of three supported on an overpaid unionized steelworker in Pennsylvania.

[Lunar]

People can't seem to get over the fact that modernizing our economy inevitably yields winners (Texas) and losers (Rustbelt).  There are more winners than losers and she's only a harsh mistress if you have a family of three supported on an overpaid unionized steelworker in Pennsylvania.

Correction:

Winners (China, WalMart), losers (Middle Class America).

I don't know how to say it nicely but that's retarded and has nothing to do with how the real world works.  Yes, some people do get hurt by free trade if you look at anecdotal slices.  Yet that's unfair to make generalizations based upon a few sob stories about "middle class America" being hurt by big-bad China.  America is really good at a lot of things, and we're relatively bad compared to the rest of the world at a lot of things.  If you define middle class America at the crap we're comparatively bad at (textiles, manual labor, steel, automobiles) then sure.  But there's lots of middle-class America that are doctors, scientists, professors, designers, architects, or laborers in plane-factories, chemical plants, or superconductor factories [?] that benefit AMAZINGLY from free trade so that's just not fair.

[Lunar]

We can't continue to buy products from countries with no respect for the environment or human rights.. of course they can produce stuff cheaper than we can!  They can dump their sludge in the river and make 8 year olds do it... how are we supposed to compete with that?

It's not about competing on individual markets.  Even if a country produces at 1/1000th of the level of efficiency and cost effectiveness as our country, we will STILL be able to mutually benefit from trade.

Look:
United States can make 500 superconductors or 500 shirts in a day/month/whatever
China can produce 1 superconductor or 100 shirts

US is much more efficient at both items.  But China has a comparative advantage at making shirts while the US has a comparative advantage at making superconductors.  We both make what we're good at and trade for the other, resulting in a maximization of our happiness!  Even if the US only wants shirts and China only wants superconductors, they would still make what they're good at.

Fair trade is important regarding some things, but it's not as big of a deal as you depict it.  For example, I wouldn't want African countries to enter a vicious cycle to see who can lower workplace safety the most in certain markets (mining) but that isn't really what you're talking about..

[Lunar]

We can't continue to buy products from countries with no respect for the environment or human rights.. of course they can produce stuff cheaper than we can!  They can dump their sludge in the river and make 8 year olds do it... how are we supposed to compete with that?

It's not about competing on individual markets.  Even if a country produces at 1/1000th of the level of efficiency and cost effectiveness as our country, we will STILL be able to mutually benefit from trade.

Look:
United States can make 500 superconductors or 500 shirts in a day/month/whatever
China can produce 1 superconductor or 100 shirts

US is much more efficient at both items.  But China has a comparative advantage at making shirts while the US has a comparative advantage at making superconductors.  We both make what we're good at and trade for the other, resulting in a maximization of our happiness!  Even if the US only wants shirts and China only wants superconductors, they would still make what they're good at.

Fair trade is important regarding some things, but it's not as big of a deal as you depict it.  For example, I wouldn't want African countries to enter a vicious cycle to see who can lower workplace safety the most in certain markets (mining) but that isn't really what you're talking about..

That's how it works in an idealistic world.. straight out of textbook economics 101.

But what has happened in the U.S. is that through neglecting our education, health care, and infrastructure systems, we are losing our comparative advantage at producing superconductors while China is becoming better and better at producing T-Shirts AND superconductors because it can do so much more cheaply.. so, China gains more than the U.S. and the U.S. actually starts to slide backwards..

And then voters compound the problem by getting all in a tizzy and voting to further cut education, health care, and infrastructure funding because their incomes aren't rising and they blame it all on taxes.

Yes, it's a vicious cycle... if only the free market worked like it's supposed to!

Yeah I know it's straight out of an intro to econ class because the benefits from free trade ARE simple economics.  Even if China becomes better at producing both than the US (say, switch the numbers around) *we still have a comparative advantage at one.*  The US is never going to find its future in an industrial economy like one can find in Western Pennsylvania because the rest of the world is comparatively better at doing what they do compared to everything else than the United States (we're really bloody good at chemicals & aircraft while the rest of the world isn't, for example).  I was just answering your earlier question as to why US workers are less efficient.  It's not that we're less efficient, it's just has to do with the relative price of our products since we're so awesome and producing many other service-oriented, highly-specialized, and investment-heavy things.

[Lunar]

Pay and benefits at the 'high tech' jobs you fantasize about do not remotely match those provided by working in a steel mill 35 years ago.

Well we can't really return to being an industrial economy much easier than we could return to being an agrarian state.  Standard of living has gone up across the board in the last 35 years, even in steel areas, so I don't know how much one can complain.

[Lunar]

Woman 1: I was very insulted by Barack Obama.

Man 1: It just shows how out of touch Barack Obama is.

Woman 2: I'm not clinging to my faith out of frustration and bitterness. I find that my faith is very uplifting.

Man 2: The good people of Pennsylvania deserve a lot better than what Barack Obama said.

Woman 1: Hillary does understand the citizens of Pennsylvania better.

Woman 3: Hillary Clinton has been fighting for people like us her whole life.