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Author Topic: Brexit THread  (Read 3799 times)
EPG
Jr. Member
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Posts: 992
« on: February 05, 2018, 02:40:43 AM »

Why is she still fighting battles she is sure to lose...

One could also ask why the EU is choosing to act in a manner that essentially guarantees the UK never returns and that Iceland, Norway, and Switzerland never enter? At a minimum, I can't see the UK agreeing to ever rejoin the EU unless there is in place an agreement on exactly what happens if the UK decides to leave again so that it doesn't have to go through this a second time.

The EU's goal is not sheer size or numbers of member states, but a single economic policy and the four freedoms.
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EPG
Jr. Member
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Posts: 992
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2018, 02:05:12 PM »

And yet, yesterday, T. May said that during the transition, European citizens coming in the UK would be treated differently.

Why is she still fighting battles she is sure to lose...

Because many of the people behind her (who she relies on for support, and who value a clean Brexit over single market access or lack of disruption) are supposedly mutinous and ready for deposing her.
I understand that, but taking a hard line now and being forced to "capitulate" in front of the EU in a few weeks or months will be ever more damaging for her relationship with Brexiteers right?

One could also ask why the EU is choosing to act in a manner that essentially guarantees the UK never returns and that Iceland, Norway, and Switzerland never enter? At a minimum, I can't see the UK agreeing to ever rejoin the EU unless there is in place an agreement on exactly what happens if the UK decides to leave again so that it doesn't have to go through this a second time.
The EU defends itself. If you can have all the advantages of the EU without all the obligations of the EU, what's the point?
To be a member of the single market you have to pay for the access, you have accept EU laws and rulings of the ECJ, you have to accept all 4 liberties. That's the case for Norway and Iceland.
Now why the UK should have a special treatment? (The UK already had a special treatment inside the EU and were never happy with it, and the transition is already a kind of special treatment but they want a special treatment inside the special treatment?).
The goal of the EU is not to include all of Europe, it is to create a political and economical power in Europe. The UK, Norway, Iceland, Switzerland don't accept the political aspect of the EU, therefore their place is not inside the EU. That's fine, they can have some kind of relationship with the EU, but the EU will not "denature" itself to allow them to join.

Why do you assume she'll be forced to capitulate? If economics were all that mattered, Brexit would never have been brought to a vote, let alone begun. And if the EU were truly interested in freedom instead of being a large lowest common denominator market, it would have done more about Poland and Hungary's actions impinging judicial independence than toothless complaints by now. The way the EU has acted of late, if Franco and Mussolini were still in charge of Spain and Italy (don't ask how they're still alive) it wouldn't complain in the least so long as they were in favor free trade and free movement of people.

The EU is not a federal government. Think about what would happen if the EU gave the UK a deal that was tailored to be better for the UK than EU membership: every other country would vote leave to demand the same thing. Then nobody would get any of the benefits of the EU. It's not a sustainable strategy.
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EPG
Jr. Member
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Posts: 992
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2018, 02:40:59 PM »

This is simply the rule, you want the single market you have to accept the freedom of movement (among other things). Michel Barnier in London today repeated it. The UK has to choose.

And the way things are, there's a good chance the UK will choose to reject the single market.  It will of course be painful in the short term, but given how the EU is sliding towards being a union of illiberal "democracies", in the long run it might turn out to be for the best.  It's not the UK that is exposing the weakness of the EU so much as it is Poland and Hungary.

Again, the EU is not a federal country like the USA. Like it or not, almost no normal person sees regulating the exact degree of judicial independence as either a function or an advantage of being in the EU.
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EPG
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 992
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2018, 03:17:09 PM »

This is simply the rule, you want the single market you have to accept the freedom of movement (among other things). Michel Barnier in London today repeated it. The UK has to choose.

And the way things are, there's a good chance the UK will choose to reject the single market.  It will of course be painful in the short term, but given how the EU is sliding towards being a union of illiberal "democracies", in the long run it might turn out to be for the best.  It's not the UK that is exposing the weakness of the EU so much as it is Poland and Hungary.

Again, the EU is not a federal country like the USA. Like it or not, almost no normal person sees regulating the exact degree of judicial independence as either a function or an advantage of being in the EU.

So in other words, the EU exists for the benefit of plutocrats rather than democrats.

With respect, you are now talking buzzwords that aren't relevant to the question, just to maintain an oppositional position.

Almost no Europeans think it is the job of the Commission to regulate the exact degree of judicial independence in their countries. It certainly would not be "democratic" for the Commission to overrule elected governments, even if it were right.
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