Weatherboy vs The South (user search)
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Author Topic: Weatherboy vs The South  (Read 1921 times)
ilikeverin
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« on: March 04, 2022, 04:02:47 PM »

Writ of certiorari in the case of Weatherboy v the South has been granted.

Petitioner's brief is expected by 5:00 pm default forum time on 03/08/2022. Respondent's brief is expected by 5:00 pm on 03/11/2022. Any amicus curiae briefs are expected by 5:00 on 03/12/2022. Additional time may be granted at the discretion of the court.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2022, 09:18:31 PM »

To my mind, it is imperative to this case to determine whether, in Atlasia, the phrases "One Region Under God" and "In God We Trust" serve a "historical value and not purely religious value". Would either side like to present evidence that, in Atlasia (not the United States of America), that those phrases have a meaningful historical value?
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2022, 06:06:29 PM »

I am also curious about the consequences of the reset for the cultural history of Atlasia. Is it the Southern Attorney General's opinion that the culture of Atlasia was reset at the same time as the laws were reset? Does this mean, for example, that the name of our nation's capitol is Washington, not Nyman?
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2022, 06:07:24 PM »

also, as a post-script:

I know tone is difficult to convey through text, so I really hope my previous post doesn't come across as hostile or unfairly critical!

...

 I'm so fascinated and intrigued by [this discussion].

I would like to echo my colleague's remarks. Imagine me nodding sagely along to Bacon King's comments while they were being made.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2022, 07:15:52 PM »

Supreme Court of Atlasia
Nyman, DC
Weatherboy v. the South

Opinion of the Court

Before us, the Court has what, on the surface, seems to be a simple question: can the Southern Region require its schools to post the phrases "One Region Under God" and "In God We Trust" on its school buses? Yet the questions involved are nothing but simple. We are forced to grapple with questions of culture, politics, and history, and to ponder deeply the meaning of an ambiguous vote taken nearly seven years ago. We profess ourselves humbled by these monumental questions. We attempt to chart a path forward, but the constitutional questions involved are complex, and we do not wish to lapse into gratis dictum. We must confine ourselves to the facts at hand. It is only through further litigation that a binding doctrine may emerge.

I

We begin with a brief discussion of the Establishment Clause. Article I, Section 3 of the Atlasian Constitution states: "The Senate shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor obstructing the freedom of worship." This is lightly adapted from the text of the United States constitution, which states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

As the Court has repeatedly and consistently affirmed, we are not bound by the United States constitution as precedent. We are our own democracy, with our own codes, norms, and rites (as shall soon be dwelled upon). However, we may call upon the decisions of the United States constitution to inform our interpretation of the relevant Atlasian statute. United States constitutional practice along these lines is rapidly evolving, with the tension between "establishment of religion" and "free exercise" being fought in new ways. Regardless of the dividing line between them, however, cases such as Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow indicate that certain types of religious references may be permissible in government contexts under the establishment clause so long as those religious references have substantive historical value.

II

These principles also appear relevant to the Atlasian context, where our Constitution also indicates a careful balancing act may be necessary between the "establishment of religion" and "freedom of worship". Does the Atlasia Constitution also have a place for religious references with historical value? It seems likely that we do, given common law principles. There is also documented evidence of, for example, the phrase "In Dave We Trust" being used in Atlasian elections and Atlasian political rhetoric reaching back to 2004. Certainly political rhetoric may not be appropriate for other democracies, but such speeches and public comments are the framework around which our democracy hangs. It is what we have to judge what "Atlasian culture" is.

Is it the case, however, that the specific phrases "In God We Trust" or "One Region Under God" (or "One Nation Under God") are a part of Atlasian cultural or historical context? "In Dave We Trust" is certainly a well-established cultural tradition, but the evidence here for "In God We Trust" is less common. However, it shows up even in early cultural findings. The official motto of Atlasia was changed to "Ad astra per aspera" in December 2005, and it appears that it was commonly accepted that "In God We Trust" was the motto before then (see, e.g., the Needless Celebrations Removal Bill of 2006). There were debates in the Senate in August 2005 about whether the words "under God" should be eliminated from the Pledge of Allegiance. The bill was ultimately unsuccessful, but note from the discussion that the debate was not about whether the words were there in the first place. Early president PBrunsel campaigned for Senate in 2004 to defend those words in the Pledge.

We are therefore satisfied that these slogans or mottos have long served as an important touchstone in specifically Atlasian political culture and history, not just American political culture.

III

All these strolls down memory lane may be all for naught, however, depending on the reading of a vote taken at the most recent Constitutional Convention, establishing the Constitution under which the Court presently operates. With a total of three votes, the ConCon voted to wipe all existing laws in Atlasia at the time and replace them with the US statute up to that point. Curiously, though the initial votes were taken and all of Atlasia has proceeded accordingly since that point, the reset was not actually enshrined into the current Constitution. What does that mean for the present legislation?

Thankfully, the current case does not require us to delve too deeply into this constitutionally perplexing and fascinating project. Whatever the case was for the laws of Atlasia, much of the culture of Atlasia has clearly been retained. Many of the political parties had continuity pre- and post-Convention. Inside jokes remained. Histories are still told. The capital city of this nation is still Nyman. It is therefore still permissible to look to Atlasia's history from before this Constitution for insight to the cultural context of Atlasia, and that previous history says that these phrases are a part of Atlasian life.

IV

The only remaining question, then, is whether this message is one that conflicts with any students' abilities to worship freely, a fact that, logically, can includes students' ability to not worship freely. It may be somewhat uncomfortable for some students to see the word "God" stamped on their school buses, to be sure. However, these phrases clearly form a part of Atlasian culture that has existed since the beginning of this nation in 2004. Critically, they do not endorse any specific religious commitment. If school buses were required to be stamped with "The Flying Spaghetti Monster is my Lord and Savior", this would be clearly off-limits. Other religious monuments or ideas might be subject to greater scrutiny (and, it is important to note: this scrutiny must be applied in line with Atlasian history), but the Southern region has developed a sincerely impressive list of ways in which localities and regions have made reference to these concepts repeatedly in recent legislation. The preponderance of evidence suggests these messages do not form an endorsement of a specific faith or creed but instead are informed by Atlasia's cultural history.

As such, we hereby dismiss the petition to strike down Title VI, Section 4 of the No C.R.A.P. In Schools Act.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2022, 08:30:08 PM »

Although, er, intervening events captured our attention for a time, we appreciated the discussion very much from both sides!
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