Gun Nuts vs. Anti-Gun Nuts: Who is worse?

[IceSpear]

Gun nut example: Stockpiles dozens of guns in their house for the "inevitable" doomsday/anarchy/zombie apocolypse. Thinks having to get a background check to purchase an assault rifle is a violation of muh freedomz. Constantly lives in fear of federal government "takin mah guns" even when no gun legislation is being debated.

Anti-gun nut example: Thinks all guns should be banned and forcibly confiscated, even those used solely for hunting. Believes that every person who owns a single gun is a mentally ill sociopath who will eventually kill somebody, and that they probably have a small penis.

[IceSpear]

The first one exists in large numbers; the second one does not.

Let's not take volume into account here.

Anyway, I'm saying gun nuts since their paranoia can actually end up harming people.

[IceSpear]

We need guns to protect ourselves?  Also a canard.  There is practically no chance any individual will be in a situation where they need a gun to protect themselves.  I've lived in bad neighborhoods most of my life and had people point guns at me and mug me a few times.  A bit of cash and the chore of cancelling your credit cards is not worth shooting someone or escalating a situation like that.  But, I suppose the only real self-defense is common-sense and that gun nuts do not have.

I strongly disagree. If someone breaks in your house to rob you, what will you have to defend yourself and your family?

As for the mugging scenario, provided that the mugger was threatening the mugged (muggee?) with a deadly weapon, I would not shed a single tear over them getting shot in self defense. They knew the risks when they chose a life of crime, it's their own fault and they got what's coming to them when they decided to mess with the wrong person.

[IceSpear]

We need guns to protect ourselves?  Also a canard.  There is practically no chance any individual will be in a situation where they need a gun to protect themselves.  I've lived in bad neighborhoods most of my life and had people point guns at me and mug me a few times.  A bit of cash and the chore of cancelling your credit cards is not worth shooting someone or escalating a situation like that.  But, I suppose the only real self-defense is common-sense and that gun nuts do not have.

I strongly disagree. If someone breaks in your house to rob you, what will you have to defend yourself and your family?

As for the mugging scenario, provided that the mugger was threatening the mugged (muggee?) with a deadly weapon, I would not shed a single tear over them getting shot in self defense. They knew the risks when they chose a life of crime, it's their own fault and they got what's coming to them when they decided to mess with the wrong person.

Hmmm.  It's not that simple though.  It's about balancing out the risks.

I have three locked doors between me and said crazy guy with a gun.  And, I can call the cops and they'll be at my apartment in a few minutes.  That seems like a good amount of safety.  The other thing is, what good does it do some junky to murder me?  None.  If they want money, that's fine.  Risky your life and escalating things isn't worth it at all.  I've had close friends murdered, I hate violent criminals with a passion.  But, it's a matter of being smart.  And, honestly, if you think you're willing to kill someone because they want to steal your laptop, you're either a studio gangster or a violent idiot.

And, at the end of the day, if someone really wants to kill you, they probably will.  It's not worth going through life paranoid and constantly strapped for the small chance you can shoot first.  Plus, just in an ultimate sense, you have a societal balancing of the risks.  Guns reduce the safety of a community, in terms of accidents, suicides, stray bullets and violent crime.  If you know gun crime like I do, you would realize it's rare that you're going to have a chance to pull out a gun before they do, especially if you're not a trained law enforcement person.  People have these Clint Eastwood fantasies, but that's what happens in movies, not real life. 

I think this all comes down to machismo.  "They messed with the wrong guy," that's just bravado.  I'm for self-defense as a last resort, sure.  Most criminals are dumb kids and drug addicts.  They're human beings who made mistakes.  You don't just cavalierly blow their brains out.  That might seem like a tough guy thing to do, but it's really the pathetic, cowardly George Zimmerman attitude that gets people killed. 

Locked doors can easily be kicked through in a matter of seconds. And you're assuming that junkies are operating with a logical mindset. They aren't. They might kill you because you can identify them, they're scared that you might interfere with their goal, as a reflex due to being trigger happy, or because the voices in their head told them to. In addition, what if you're a woman? Sure, as a man maybe all they'll want is your laptop, but a woman should simply let herself be raped to avoid "escalating the situation"? I don't think so.

So you prefer to let them continue mugging people without consequence then? And the George Zimmerman thing isn't even comparable. He was clearly escalating the situation in an unreasonable manner (ex: shooting him when they were in a fist fight). As I said in my initial post, if threatened with a deadly weapon, then deadly force is justified.

[IceSpear]

People who think that they need guns to defend themselves are strange.

One should always be prepared for situations in which strange, abnormal behaviour is required.

Sure, but you don't see me insisting that everyone carry a duck, toenail clippings, and a pair of calipers at all times.

True. But, there may well be cases where one needs a gun to defend oneself, and thus, my own personal opinion is that people should be allowed to maintain some sort of firearm (and no, not an assault weapon etc) for them to fall back on if it is really needed (and yes, background checks and a gun registry are needed for this to be more policeable).

When are you at all likely to find yourself facing a situation in which a gun is helpful?

Instead of cowering during a home invasion, being ready the second they come through your door?

[IceSpear]

People who think that they need guns to defend themselves are strange.

One should always be prepared for situations in which strange, abnormal behaviour is required.

Sure, but you don't see me insisting that everyone carry a duck, toenail clippings, and a pair of calipers at all times.

True. But, there may well be cases where one needs a gun to defend oneself, and thus, my own personal opinion is that people should be allowed to maintain some sort of firearm (and no, not an assault weapon etc) for them to fall back on if it is really needed (and yes, background checks and a gun registry are needed for this to be more policeable).

When are you at all likely to find yourself facing a situation in which a gun is helpful?

Instead of cowering during a home invasion, being ready the second they come through your door?

You must be a light sleeper.

I am actually.