30 Senate Dems plan all-nighter discussing climate change.

[MalaspinaGold]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/10/senate-overnight-climate-change_n_4937078.html

[MalaspinaGold]

Thomas Jefferson: I did not delete my post. I assume it was deleted by a mod. I won't contest it. I will ask a question to CTRattlesnake
Do you know that scientists first identified CO2, CH4, and N2O as greenhouse gases a century ago, before any talk of global warming was around? And do you you deny that greenhouse gases have been increasing in the atmosphere, as a direct result of human industrial activity? This is not a hard concept to grasp...

[MalaspinaGold]

I respectfully disagree. At the very least, they need to expose the misinformation. That's actually what they're doing right now- mostly it's been "look at what's happened, here's the evidence". A few senators mentioned cap-and-trade, but most specific policies have been along the lines of fuel efficiency standards and renewable energy/natural gas investment. I'm hearing Shaheen-Portman touted a lot so far. None of the policies they are seriously talking about I feel could be mildly controversial, and again, most of the time they are talking about the evidence of what is happening in their own states.

My own favorite was, surprisingly, Senator King's (I-ME) speech. He did a great job connecting the dots on economic, environmental, security, moral, reasons, to take action.

[MalaspinaGold]

I never heard that talking point when Rand Paul and others filibustered on drones and the NSA.

I think the method in the madness is to make it a more visible issue so they can capitalize on it later. Otherwise I don't think 29 senators would be doing it. More like 5. We'll just have to see though.

[MalaspinaGold]

Sigh... I'm just going to repeat a previous quote.

Do you know that scientists first identified CO2, CH4, and N2O as greenhouse gases a century ago, before any talk of global warming was around? And do you you deny that greenhouse gases have been increasing in the atmosphere, as a direct result of human industrial activity? This is not a hard concept to grasp...

[MalaspinaGold]

hey AggregateDemand

this is not a debate.

Hey butafly, thats not the way science works and there are plenty of dissenters, please don't cherry pick data.

“In the sciences, the authority of thousands of opinions is not worth as much as one tiny spark of reason in an individual man.”
― Galileo Galilei

Hey CTRattlesnake, the 9136 sparks of reason from 9136 reasonable person outweighs the one tiny "authoritative opinion".

And yes, that is the way science works.

[MalaspinaGold]

You seem to neglect two very strong positive feedback systems: the release of methane from previously frozen permafrost, and the decreased albedo effect caused by shrinking ice coverage.

By acting to trap energy, these molecules increase the average kinetic energy of the system, aka of the temperature of the atmosphere.

[MalaspinaGold]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

And yet you accuse the other side of "religious zealotry"...

I'm pretty sure I have just as much obsession re: this topic as you.

Your explanation about the CO2 escaping is intriguing, but at the very least, incomplete. For example, any poleward movement would be met by a (relative) loss of heat, that would cause it to drop back down .

[MalaspinaGold]

Regarding your convection theory- all that does is lead to a more efficient heating of the entire planet, such that cool, polar areas will get warmer summers. since glacial cover is closely dependent with summer temperature, this also predicates decline of glacial cover in the Arctic, worsening the albedo problem.

Do you have any evidence that the next solar maximum is expected to be deeper than, say, the Dalton Minimum?

I find your comment about environmentalists caring about climate change to the exclusion of everything else fairly ridiculous. I have not met an environmentalist who did not care about acid rain, biodiversity loss, deforestation, water pollution, coral reef destruction, and other issues not entwined with climate change.

Just curious, but have you heard of the Milankovitch Cycle?