Kerry is NOT the most liberal senator

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm tired of people saying this. The ratings that showed him as such came from a year when he missed many many votes. The only times he voted was when he voted party line, hence he ends up being a 100% party line voter which makes him most liberal for that year, but it's a very poor sample.

He is one of the most most liberal senators, no doubt, definately one of the 10 most and arguably even 5 most, but it's tough to argue he is the single most. A lot of people say that this distinction makes him even more liberal than Kennedy. Well I dare anyone to find one vote where Kerry voted to the left of Kennedy.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm pretty confident I could find at least one vote where ever senator voted with Kennedy. Even if unanimous votes were excused.

The point is, Kerry is not more liberal than Kennedy. I can think of at least two major votes where Kennedy voted to the left, IWR and Homeland Security Department. I can't see any votes where Kerry is more liberal than Kennedy.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Come on now, that's like saying Jim Inhofe isn't the most conservative senator too.

actually, I would say he's to the left of Nickels (Nickels took the far right view on the Medicare bill and opposed it, and also opposed opening Cuba to travel from Americans, Inhofe supported it.) I can't think of any votes where Inhofe was to the right of Nickels. But there are several votes where Kennedy was to the left of Kerry, and none where he was to the right.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

ACU Ratings (lower=more liberal)

Didn't go through half of them, but I found some more liberal senators.

2003:
John Kerry - 13
Edward Kennedy -10
Barbara Boxer -10
Dianne Feinstein - 5
Charles Schumer - 10
Hillary Clinton - 10
James Jeffords - 10
Patty Murray - 10
Tom Daschle - 10
Jeff Bingaman - 10

2002:
John Kerry -20
Edward Kennedy -0
Barbara Boxer - 5
Christopher Dodd - 8
Charles Schumer - 10
Hillary Clinton - 10
James Jeffords - 6
Russell Feingold - 5
Herb Kohl - 15
Patty Murray - 10
Tim Johnson - 15
Ron Wyden - 15
Jeff Bingaman - 17
Jon Corzine - 5
Frank Lautenberg - 6
Mark Dayton - 11
Paul Sarbanes - 10

The ACU sided with the liberals on the Medicare bill, so the 2003 ratings aren't a good measure, but I think everyone you listed voted against it, so the point does stand. So does the 2002 ratings.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

That's a helluva pack Senator flipflop is running with.  Damn, I feel better now.

I even said he is a very liberal senator and one of the 10 or even 5 most liberal. But the point is he is not the single most liberal senator.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm tired of people saying this. The ratings that showed him as such came from a year when he missed many many votes. The only times he voted was when he voted party line, hence he ends up being a 100% party line voter which makes him most liberal for that year, but it's a very poor sample.

He is one of the most most liberal senators, no doubt, definately one of the 10 most and arguably even 5 most, but it's tough to argue he is the single most. A lot of people say that this distinction makes him even more liberal than Kennedy. Well I dare anyone to find one vote where Kerry voted to the left of Kennedy.

But Kerry consistant record (for whatever reason) is to the left of Kennedy's.  It's a fact.

How is that possible? In order for that to happen, he would have to vote to the left of Kennedy on a regular basis, and so far I don't know of any votes where that happened.

And actually, Kennedy has a lower lifetime ACU rating. So does Barbara Boxer. So I don't see how "it's a fact"

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

But Kerry consistant record (for whatever reason) is to the left of Kennedy's.  It's a fact.

I feel a bit disgruntled about your post.  It's a fact.  Oh wait.

Even Kerry's longterm numbers are to the right of Kennedy.

and Barbara Boxer. that's at least 2 senators he's to the right of.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't care if he's the 3rd most liberal, 5th most liberal, or the 2nd most liberal - point is he's too liberal, even if one can say he's "to the right" of Ted Kennedy. Look up his voting record - it's depressing.

Why should I find it depressing? it agrees with my ideals.

Anyway, the point is simply that people should quit saying Kerry is the SINGLE MOST LIBERAL senator. Not that he is a rather liberal senator. Call him too liberal for you, fine. But don't say he is the single most liberal senator. I probably hate Norm Coleman more than any other senator, but I would never claim he is the most conservative senator (although he is nowhere near as moderate as he campaigned as)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't care if he's the 3rd most liberal, 5th most liberal, or the 2nd most liberal - point is he's too liberal, even if one can say he's "to the right" of Ted Kennedy. Look up his voting record - it's depressing.

Why should I find it depressing? it agrees with my ideals.

Anyway, the point is simply that people should quit saying Kerry is the SINGLE MOST LIBERAL senator. Not that he is a rather liberal senator. Call him too liberal for you, fine. But don't say he is the single most liberal senator. I probably hate Norm Coleman more than any other senator, but I would never claim he is the most conservative senator (although he is nowhere near as moderate as he campaigned as)

Which voting record? The pro Iraq war, pro free trade one?

I never said he was the SINGLE most liberal senator. All I said was that he's in good company! The point about Inhofe is that is he far enough left that you'd vote for him? When you get so far left or right, a distinction like the one you're railing against becomes irrelevant.

nah, you're missing the point.

People have frequently stated a national journal rating from last year claiming that Kerry is the single most liberal Senator, and thus to the left of Kennedy. You haven't said so, but others have. And the point is he is not. Say he's too liberal for you fine, but don't see he's the most liberal.

And no I wouldn't vote for Inhofe. I don't vote for Republicans, period, unless the opponent is Zell Miller. I actually dislike Inhofe more than Nickles because he's much more of a jerk. But if someone is going to say someone is the single most liberal/conservative senator, they need to be able to back it up. Saying that Kerry is one of the most liberal and Inhofe is one of the most conservative would certainly be accurate. But saying the single most requires more backing up than a single national journal rating from a flawed year.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Nickles has only differed with the ACU/Bush**tes when he was to their right.  Hence his rating isn't 100.

I'm to the right of nearly every social position that the ACU has taken, so I'm considered by some to be socially moderate-liberal.

Voting records are generally not a measure of left-right but rather a measure of how in line witht he actual platform of the majority party.  Since Nickles is to the right of the GOP platform he gets a lower score.  Since Kennedy is the antithesis of the GOP platform, he gets single digit number.

no, the ACU has taken positions against the GOP before, such as on the Medicare bill. Nickles voted against it, that's why he got 100 last year.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

ACU is actually a conservative rating organization

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Note that the actual location of the dot is not accurate, only in comparison of the other dots does it mean something

Went through a couple based on positions rather than the voting record.

John Kerry:


Barbara Boxer:


Ted Kennedy:


Jon Corzine:

That's great, look at Ralph Nader.  If I'm not mistaken, he is less liberal than Kerry, but more populist!!!!!  Who cares if Kerry is the Most Liberal or the 5 most Liberal?  The point is that he is damn liberal.  To damn Liberal for America.

and Bush is too conservative for America.

and the point is people should not say he is the most liberal senator, like they have on this board before. Nothing more.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

what the case, let me just restate the point of this thread and hope it finally gets through:

DON'T SAY KERRY IS THE MOST LIBERAL SENATOR

that's it. nothing more nothing less. say he's too liberal for you fine. But don't say he is the single most liberal like some here have. that's all.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

what the case, let me just restate the point of this thread and hope it finally gets through:

DON'T SAY KERRY IS THE MOST LIBERAL SENATOR

that's it. nothing more nothing less. say he's too liberal for you fine. But don't say he is the single most liberal like some here have. that's all.

Well I certainly know that I never said this.  I know that he was acctually rated the most liberal one or two years.  His voting record is more liberal than Ted Kennedy's (Kennedy actually intruduced him as such once in the primary campaign if I recall) but I never said he was the most liberal (period).

Well, maybe I did, but I didn't really mean it.  But hen again I don't remember if I did ever say such a thing.

if his record is more liberal than Kennedy's why can't anyone bring up a single vote where he voted to the left of Kennedy?

and yes, he was rated most liberal last year. I've already explained why in the opening post. That year was a poor judge of his record.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

here's one example from Rococo4. And there are probably many others if you look: http://www.uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=2320;start=msg71855

*waits for the next idiot to completely miss the point of the thread and scream "I don't care if he's the most liberal, he's just too liberal period"*

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

but the ACU gives Kennedy a 3 and Kerry a 5. And Kennedy has had a much longer career, and in early ADA ratings, the average ratings were much lower. Don't know why. it'd be interesting to see what Kennedy's score is for only when Kerry is in office.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well Kennedy voted against both the base closings and fast track trade authority, so if you consider those the conservative positions, he is therefore more conservative than Kennedy that year.