Who is the most anti-Catholic Democratic candidate?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

None of them are anti-Catholic, and Beto is literally a Catholic lol.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2019/03/tbt-that-time-beto-orourke-berated-a-catholic-priest/

Pretty pathetic of that article not to give the name of that "priest" so that readers can't Google him and learn that he was disciplined by his own Catholic diocese (!) for his outrageous anti-gay bigotry (!). No Democratic Catholic is going to disagree with the Beto/official Catholic position on this creep, and no Republican Catholic should either.

And pretty pathetic of you to post something that's been widely discussed and debunked on this forum before.

Look at Beto's words. He was attacking the Catholic church as a whole ("the church you represent"), and even criticized the Pope.  Don't pretend Beto was following some official Catholic position here.

Pointing out that the Church has moral failings is not anti-Catholic, and if criticizing the Pope were (ipso facto) anti-Catholic then we'd have to say that several prominent conservative cardinals today are anti-Catholic.

Anyway, the answer is almost certainly Harris. Gillibrand has said some things that evidence a profound cluelessness about how Catholic doctrine works that's astonishing in someone who was raised Catholic and still nominally identifies as Catholic, but I don't think she's hostile to Catholicism as such.

What argument is there that Buttigieg is anti-Catholic? Is it just that he used to be Catholic and no longer is? The same is true of John Kasich and for that matter Mike Pence; that doesn't in and of itself make them anti-Catholic any more than I'm anti-Anglican.

I heard about him getting into some dispute with South Bend's diocese's bishop. And he strongly fought to keep a women's health clinic that performed abortions in South Bend open, something the Catholic Church really gunned for closing.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

None of them are anti-Catholic, and Beto is literally a Catholic lol.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2019/03/tbt-that-time-beto-orourke-berated-a-catholic-priest/

Pretty pathetic of that article not to give the name of that "priest" so that readers can't Google him and learn that he was disciplined by his own Catholic diocese (!) for his outrageous anti-gay bigotry (!). No Democratic Catholic is going to disagree with the Beto/official Catholic position on this creep, and no Republican Catholic should either.

And pretty pathetic of you to post something that's been widely discussed and debunked on this forum before.

Look at Beto's words. He was attacking the Catholic church as a whole ("the church you represent"), and even criticized the Pope.  Don't pretend Beto was following some official Catholic position here.

Pointing out that the Church has moral failings is not anti-Catholic, and if criticizing the Pope were (ipso facto) anti-Catholic then we'd have to say that several prominent conservative cardinals today are anti-Catholic.

Anyway, the answer is almost certainly Harris. Gillibrand has said some things that evidence a profound cluelessness about how Catholic doctrine works that's astonishing in someone who was raised Catholic and still nominally identifies as Catholic, but I don't think she's hostile to Catholicism as such.

What argument is there that Buttigieg is anti-Catholic? Is it just that he used to be Catholic and no longer is? The same is true of John Kasich and for that matter Mike Pence; that doesn't in and of itself make them anti-Catholic any more than I'm anti-Anglican.

I heard about him getting into some dispute with South Bend's diocese's bishop. And he strongly fought to keep a women's health clinic that performed abortions in South Bend open, something the Catholic Church really gunned for closing.

He's going against most all Christian denominations doing that though, including his own -- it's not like it was a particularly anti-Catholic action.

The Episcopal church wasn't trying to close the clinic.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

None of them are anti-Catholic, and Beto is literally a Catholic lol.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2019/03/tbt-that-time-beto-orourke-berated-a-catholic-priest/

Pretty pathetic of that article not to give the name of that "priest" so that readers can't Google him and learn that he was disciplined by his own Catholic diocese (!) for his outrageous anti-gay bigotry (!). No Democratic Catholic is going to disagree with the Beto/official Catholic position on this creep, and no Republican Catholic should either.

And pretty pathetic of you to post something that's been widely discussed and debunked on this forum before.

Look at Beto's words. He was attacking the Catholic church as a whole ("the church you represent"), and even criticized the Pope.  Don't pretend Beto was following some official Catholic position here.

Pointing out that the Church has moral failings is not anti-Catholic, and if criticizing the Pope were (ipso facto) anti-Catholic then we'd have to say that several prominent conservative cardinals today are anti-Catholic.

Anyway, the answer is almost certainly Harris. Gillibrand has said some things that evidence a profound cluelessness about how Catholic doctrine works that's astonishing in someone who was raised Catholic and still nominally identifies as Catholic, but I don't think she's hostile to Catholicism as such.

What argument is there that Buttigieg is anti-Catholic? Is it just that he used to be Catholic and no longer is? The same is true of John Kasich and for that matter Mike Pence; that doesn't in and of itself make them anti-Catholic any more than I'm anti-Anglican.

I heard about him getting into some dispute with South Bend's diocese's bishop. And he strongly fought to keep a women's health clinic that performed abortions in South Bend open, something the Catholic Church really gunned for closing.

He's going against most all Christian denominations doing that though, including his own -- it's not like it was a particularly anti-Catholic action.

The Episcopal church wasn't trying to close the clinic.

The Episcopal Church opposes elective abortion (like the Catholic Church it allows it to save the mother's life, and unlike the Catholic Church in the case of rape/incest), so it's pretty clear that Buttigieg was going against his denomination, even if they weren't leading the charge.

That's not a knock on him, of course. I'm proud of all 20 candidates in the Democratic field standing up for abortion rights, even though all 20 of them (actually I'm not 100% sure about Gabbard or Yang, but probably them too) belong to religious groups that disagree with their opinion.

1-Sanders, Williamson and Bennet don't.
2-Theres a difference between opposing elective abortion and wanting a clinic closed just because it performs abortions (in addition to many other things that make up the vast majority of what it does.) Mind you the Episcopal church doesn't oppose the pill, which all women's health clinics provide far more of than abortions, but the Catholic church does. Buttigieg wasn't going against Episcopal doctrine or political force in fighting to keep the clinic open, he was against Catholic doctrine and political forces.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

None of them are anti-Catholic, and Beto is literally a Catholic lol.

He was in a post-hardcore Revolution Summer-influenced band, so he has to be either a closet atheist/agnostic or some sort of emergent or emergent-esque non-denominational Christian because no people outside of these religious identities could be in such a band, the same way there were obviously no Catholics in attendance at Dude Fest. And since he hasn't converted to that type of Christianity, he has to be the former.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

None of them are anti-Catholic, and Beto is literally a Catholic lol.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2019/03/tbt-that-time-beto-orourke-berated-a-catholic-priest/

Pretty pathetic of that article not to give the name of that "priest" so that readers can't Google him and learn that he was disciplined by his own Catholic diocese (!) for his outrageous anti-gay bigotry (!). No Democratic Catholic is going to disagree with the Beto/official Catholic position on this creep, and no Republican Catholic should either.

And pretty pathetic of you to post something that's been widely discussed and debunked on this forum before.

Look at Beto's words. He was attacking the Catholic church as a whole ("the church you represent"), and even criticized the Pope.  Don't pretend Beto was following some official Catholic position here.

Pointing out that the Church has moral failings is not anti-Catholic, and if criticizing the Pope were (ipso facto) anti-Catholic then we'd have to say that several prominent conservative cardinals today are anti-Catholic.

Anyway, the answer is almost certainly Harris. Gillibrand has said some things that evidence a profound cluelessness about how Catholic doctrine works that's astonishing in someone who was raised Catholic and still nominally identifies as Catholic, but I don't think she's hostile to Catholicism as such.

What argument is there that Buttigieg is anti-Catholic? Is it just that he used to be Catholic and no longer is? The same is true of John Kasich and for that matter Mike Pence; that doesn't in and of itself make them anti-Catholic any more than I'm anti-Anglican.

It's not just pointing out the Catholic Church has moral failings, it's using that as an ad hominem to say that a representative of the Church deserves to be ignored on a different issue.

But, according to the Catholic Church itself, this "priest" does deserve to be ignored on the issue of gay marriage. Virtually all Catholic Democrats will find nothing wrong with what Beto said to this creep.

Beto was explicitly treating the priest (he was still a priest at this time) as a representative of the Catholic Church, and saying he deserves to be ignored for that reason!

I don't know what else to tell you. Any Catholic truly offended by what Beto said was never going to vote for Beto or any other Democratic candidate anyway.

Both liberal Catholics and conservative Catholics tend to be unoffended by strongly worded criticism of the Church when they agree with the criticism. Democratic Catholics don't care when the Church is criticized for its views on abortion and gay equality, and Republican Catholics don't care when the Church is criticized for its views on climate change, capital punishment and #BuildTheWall.

Exactly why it makes no sense to be Catholic, why belong to a church that's guaranteed to piss you off around half the time?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

None of them are anti-Catholic, and Beto is literally a Catholic lol.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2019/03/tbt-that-time-beto-orourke-berated-a-catholic-priest/

Pretty pathetic of that article not to give the name of that "priest" so that readers can't Google him and learn that he was disciplined by his own Catholic diocese (!) for his outrageous anti-gay bigotry (!). No Democratic Catholic is going to disagree with the Beto/official Catholic position on this creep, and no Republican Catholic should either.

And pretty pathetic of you to post something that's been widely discussed and debunked on this forum before.

Look at Beto's words. He was attacking the Catholic church as a whole ("the church you represent"), and even criticized the Pope.  Don't pretend Beto was following some official Catholic position here.

Pointing out that the Church has moral failings is not anti-Catholic, and if criticizing the Pope were (ipso facto) anti-Catholic then we'd have to say that several prominent conservative cardinals today are anti-Catholic.

Anyway, the answer is almost certainly Harris. Gillibrand has said some things that evidence a profound cluelessness about how Catholic doctrine works that's astonishing in someone who was raised Catholic and still nominally identifies as Catholic, but I don't think she's hostile to Catholicism as such.

What argument is there that Buttigieg is anti-Catholic? Is it just that he used to be Catholic and no longer is? The same is true of John Kasich and for that matter Mike Pence; that doesn't in and of itself make them anti-Catholic any more than I'm anti-Anglican.

It's not just pointing out the Catholic Church has moral failings, it's using that as an ad hominem to say that a representative of the Church deserves to be ignored on a different issue.

But, according to the Catholic Church itself, this "priest" does deserve to be ignored on the issue of gay marriage. Virtually all Catholic Democrats will find nothing wrong with what Beto said to this creep.

Beto was explicitly treating the priest (he was still a priest at this time) as a representative of the Catholic Church, and saying he deserves to be ignored for that reason!

Plus he was in a band for f[inks] sake.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

If being pro-choice = "anti-Catholic", then Sinn Fein are more anti-Catholic than the DUP.

The idea that being opposed to a particular doctrine of a faith automatically makes you prejudiced against that faith is ridiculous. If true that would make e.g. devout Catholics anti-semites by definition, or, hell, make the majority of US Catholics who disagree with making divorce illegal anti-Catholic too.

It's usually Catholics who make this allegation. Look at the Catholic League. They even attacked the movie Spotlight as anti-Catholic.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Plus he was in a band for f[inks] sake.

So was Dolores O'Riordan.

Not a band that descended from Revolution Summer though. Catholicism's patriatchial structures, sexuality morality and gender roles runs completely contradictory to the values of that scene, and Beto's record on abortion, LGBT issues and marijuana in his political career indicate he stuck with those values.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Plus he was in a band for f[inks] sake.

So was Dolores O'Riordan.

Not a band that descended from Revolution Summer though. Catholicism's patriatchial structures, sexuality morality and gender roles runs completely contradictory to the values of that scene, and Beto's record on abortion, LGBT issues and marijuana in his political career indicate he stuck with those values.

Again, disagreeing with Catholic doctrine on these, or any other, issues is not tantamount to anti-Catholic bigotry.

My point is that it's pretty clear he's not a real Catholic. He doesn't even pretend to attend Mass or anything like that.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

If being pro-choice = "anti-Catholic", then Sinn Fein are more anti-Catholic than the DUP.

The idea that being opposed to a particular doctrine of a faith automatically makes you prejudiced against that faith is ridiculous. If true that would make e.g. devout Catholics anti-semites by definition, or, hell, make the majority of US Catholics who disagree with making divorce illegal anti-Catholic too.

I'll also note that DUP-style anti-Catholic identity politics doesn't really exist in the US and hasn't for decades.

Yes you can find the occasional fire and brimstone preacher of some small podunk church saying things about the Catholic Church being the Whore of Babylon or whatever and some kooky fundamentalist tracts at rest stops, but that stuff is pretty fringe amongst mainstream conservatism, even evangelicals. They have no problem voting for Catholics. For example just look at how they rallied around Rick Santorum in 2012 or Marco Rubio to a large extent in 2016. Mike Pence is an ex-Catholic, but his brother is still Catholic, and he got elected to the House last year largely based on Pence's support, showing there's no bad blood. And when's the last time ANYWHERE a GOP candidate lost a primary due to being Catholic? In fact it doesn't even seem to hurt conservadems in such areas, Joe Manchin was never dogged by being Catholic.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm going to make a bit of a hot take here and say that not only is trying to apply the religious identity politics of a place like Northern Ireland to the US is not only very very stupid (and the stubbornness of a few non-American posters to do this is a big factor in the stubbornness I developed about the fluidity of American religious identity), it's on the same level of stupid as "Western Ukraine is fiscally conservative, Eastern Ukraine is socially conservative."

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I will now accept my accolades on Beto.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What's the point of bumping a thread like this?

People were skeptical of my claiming Beto isn't a real Catholic. Well since then he's called for eliminating the tax exemption for churches that oppose same-sex marriage. Yeah that's totally someone I can see as a Catholic.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What's the point of bumping a thread like this?

People were skeptical of my claiming Beto isn't a real Catholic. Well since then he's called for eliminating the tax exemption for churches that oppose same-sex marriage. Yeah that's totally someone I can see as a Catholic.

Ah, yes. That. Yes, I see what you mean.

I hope you don't think this is a good idea, though. Not only is imposing a state orthodoxy in theology of sexuality a violation of the Establishment Clause, doing so would give carte blanche for the next Republican administration to punish your church the same way if it saw fit.

I'm not disputing it's blatantly unconstitutional. I'm just saying it's kind of comical to suggest someone could propose that and be a Catholic. That goes well beyond disagreeing with the church's position on abortion or homosexuality.