Did the invasion of Iraq benefit Iran? (user search)
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  Did the invasion of Iraq benefit Iran? (search mode)
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Question: Did the invasion of Iraq benefit Iran?
#1
yes
 
#2
no
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 26

Author Topic: Did the invasion of Iraq benefit Iran?  (Read 4102 times)
I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
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Posts: 113,619
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

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« on: November 06, 2005, 01:30:32 PM »

Anyone who denies this is pretty damn delusional.
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 113,619
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2005, 06:28:26 PM »

Considering that the situation for the Iranian government changed from a regime headed by Saddam Hussein that was weak and rotting from within, to being flanked on two sides by the 'Great Satan' itself -the United States in Iraq and Afghanistan, I do not believe that they considered themselves to have benefited all that much from our ouster of Saddam Hussein -at least not initially.   

They went from having their archnemesis on their western border to the only other country in the world ran by Shiites that is very friendly and cozying up to them. Reestablishing diplomatic relations with Iran was one of the first things the new Iraqi government did.
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 113,619
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2005, 12:59:44 PM »

It has replaced one threat to Iran with another.  Whether one is greater than the other is yet to be determined.

The new Iraqi government is very friendly to Iran. Hardly a threat.
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 113,619
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2005, 11:25:36 AM »

The threats are:

1. 140,000 US troops on their border


Which are tied down in Iraq with the insurgency, are not much threat to the larger Iranian army, and won't be staying much longer as it would be political suicide.

2. Democracy, which has already started spreading in the region

How does democracy "spread"? Is a dictatorship going to change just because a neighboring country turns democratic? Hmm yes, North Korea and Burma have improved so much since their neighbors went democratic and Zimbabwe has been so affected by Botswana and South Africa. Oh wait...

The only Middle Eastern country to become more democratic since then is Lebanon, which happened for completely unrelated reasons, and in a country that was a democracy previously anyway.
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 113,619
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2005, 01:37:22 PM »


As mentioned, happened for completely unrelated reasons.


which are even less democratic than Iran's.


which is still mostly a joke, much like Iran's elections.

Plus none of those were related to Iraq anyway. Saudi Arabia and Egypt know the US will never invade them, they obviously didn't think that they better make some joke reforms to give semblence of democracy or they'd be invaded. I don't see any effects from Iraq at all.
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 113,619
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2005, 11:40:52 PM »
« Edited: November 08, 2005, 11:42:51 PM by Left of the Dial »


As mentioned, happened for completely unrelated reasons.


which are even less democratic than Iran's.


which is still mostly a joke, much like Iran's elections.

Plus none of those were related to Iraq anyway. Saudi Arabia and Egypt know the US will never invade them, they obviously didn't think that they better make some joke reforms to give semblence of democracy or they'd be invaded. I don't see any effects from Iraq at all.

I know you don't believe the argument that when Arabs see voting in Iraq, they will demand it in their own countries and those governments will have to relent.  I'm going to restate that argument anyway.

Lebanon is, therefore, related to Iraq.

I disagree that Iran's elections are any more democratic than Saudi or Egypt's.

Whether they are more or less democratic than Iran's elections is irrelevant to whether the catalyst was the invasion of Iraq.

Voting in Iraq assasinated Rafik Hariri?

Aside from that, Lebanon had previously been a democracy, and still had somewhat fair elections up until then, just as fair as you could get in a country under military occupation by a foreign power. Kind of like Iraq. Lebanon had a "democracy" similar to what is currently in Iraq, and yet we're expected to believe they wanted a better one and a occupying foreign power to leave because of Iraq and not because of the assasination of an opposition leader. Uh huh.

And to argue there is no way the Cedar Revolution could've possibly happened without Iraq is just asinine.

As for Iran being more democratic than Saudi Arabia or Egypt, women can vote in Iran, and it's possible for the opposition not supported by the establishment to win as the last election proved (scary as that guy who won is.) Yet how much did Mukabarak win by again? Not to mention the regimes in both countries were very stable and there was no threat of them falling if they didn't toss in some joke reforms that absolutely no one in the countries would've demanded without Iraq.
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 113,619
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2005, 11:11:21 PM »

Ah, but in Iran, the women can only vote for the government that has no power.  It is a ruse, and no surprise that you bought the ruse hook line and sinker.

Just like the elected government in Saudi Arabia hs no power either.

Explain how Togo is still an autocratic regime when it's between two of the most democratic countries in Africa (Ghana and Benin). That has had no effect on it at all.
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