Your feelings on Perez as DNC Chair, Ellison as Deputy Chair?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Democrat - Burn'em all!

You seem to think the office of DNC Chair has near a thousand times as much power as it actually does.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Who cares? The "process" is illegitimate.

Howso? Because individual party members don't get to vote?

That's because the DNC Chair is not the head of the party and is not equivalent to party leader in a Parliamentary system. They are Exactly What It Says On The Tin, Chairman of the Democratic National Committee. Of course only Democratic National Committee members get to vote on it. This is like complaining that individual party members don't get to vote on the heads of the Democratic House or Senate caucus.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Anyway Option 2.

I supported Ellison. I'm obviously biased but I would've anyway. But Perez is sooooooooooo much better than DWS it's impossible to not be a little bit happy.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime, so maybe cool it a little?

I support Ellison and am OK with Perez. I don't think he's a monster and he's infinitely better than DWS. I do not see how I was given the middle finger. I doubt even Ellison feels that way. So yes I will call out Antonio for acting like such a moron in regards to a party he's not even a member of or eligible to vote for.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime.

Yeah, it's hilarious that someone triggered by the fact that there's a Russian Art Musuem is lecturing us on giving a sh**t about who is DNC chair after how terrible Obama's other picks were.

Also hilarious how someone who thinks Ohio was stolen in 2004 and that the DNC primary was stolen thinks Putin never rigs elections or had any attempts to influence this one.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And neither is a debate schedule or New York having voter registration laws that the DNC has no control over.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime, so maybe cool it a little?

I support Ellison and am OK with Perez. I don't think he's a monster and he's infinitely better than DWS. I do not see how I was given the middle finger. I doubt even Ellison feels that way. So yes I will call out Antonio for acting like such a moron in regards to a party he's not even a member of or eligible to vote for.

I'm an eligible D and I believe the same thing.

I'm glad you supported Ellison. Who did you support in the Democratic primary?

Sanders.

Do you align yourself with people who believe that the Democratic Party is elitist and does not represent them or their beliefs? Were you disappointed by President Obama's administration?

No to both.

If you don't share our priorities, you're not one of us. You show little interest (much like your compatriots in the DNC apparently) in understanding the perspective and ideology of different factions within the party.

Actually I'm willing to wager most Democrats don't feel that way. And the second sentence is not at all true, and actually if you knew anything about my work here you'd know how comical and ridiculous that is. However it's pretty absurd to say that Perez doesn't understand that either, or even that his position is all that important in regards to that.

You believe that the Democratic party's problems are mechanical, not ideological. You don't understand what we're talking about if you call our concerns childish.

The problems are both. The DNC chair's job though is to fix the mechanical ones. The DNC chair has little influence over policy. And frankly even if that was a big part of the job I'd be fine with Perez because he is no centrist shill either and claiming he is is absurd.

You freak out at plenty of things that are absolutely bonkers. You are in no position to criticize Antonio, (especially because he's in the right).

So it's right to have a meltdown of epic proportions over the most progressive DNC Chair since probably Paul Kirk or someone just got selected because he beat your preferred candidate who is still being given a position of influence? And speaking as someone who has met Ellison himself on multiple occasions, I can assure you he would not approve.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You know who opposes TPP? Take a look above your post.

Yeah I know that's a guilt by association fallacy (FYI I don't support TPP either), but it's relevant in another factor: TPP is quite obviously very much dead. And it's not like the DNC Chair has much influence as to its passage anyway, whipping votes in Congress is not one of his duties.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Do you align yourself with people who believe that the Democratic Party is elitist and does not represent them or their beliefs? Were you disappointed by President Obama's administration?

No to both.

Aye and there's the rub, I suspect.

If you don't share our priorities, you're not one of us. You show little interest (much like your compatriots in the DNC apparently) in understanding the perspective and ideology of different factions within the party.

Actually I'm willing to wager most Democrats don't feel that way. And the second sentence is not at all true, and actually if you knew anything about my work here you'd know how comical and ridiculous that is. However it's pretty absurd to say that Perez doesn't understand that either, or even that his position is all that important in regards to that.

Of currently registered Democrats? Sure. Based on past results I'd bet it's about 60-40 in favor of feeling represented. But those aren't the goalposts we should use. Include the left leaning Is (that the Party has hemhorraged over the past 2 years) to make up our electoral coalition every cycle? I bet it's *at least* reversed.

Then you should be working on recruiting progressive candidates downballot, not focusing so much on a position who's primary roles are hosting fundraisers and doing quick 5 minute interviews on news networks.

As for this not reflecting your work, I think all of us that have done political work who are on this forum on this forum are very glad that we don't have to act up to our professional standards while posting. The way you act on this forum reflects very little interest in party unity or understanding the ideological breakdown of the party. You might do it in your day job, but you don't do it here.

Oh my God. Please read jfern's posting history and then tell me he has ANY interest whatsoever in party unity. Like seriously. ROFL.

The problems are both. The DNC chair's job though is to fix the mechanical ones. The DNC chair has little influence over policy. And frankly even if that was a big part of the job I'd be fine with Perez because he is no centrist shill either and claiming he is is absurd.

It's factional. The Bernie wing had a candidate, and Perez was put up by the forces of stasis. He will be a force for stasis in the position because that was his electoral coalition.

Well good thing his position has little do with "the force of stasis" then.

So it's right to have a meltdown of epic proportions over the most progressive DNC Chair since probably Paul Kirk or someone just got selected because he beat your preferred candidate who is still being given a position of influence? And speaking as someone who has met Ellison himself on multiple occasions, I can assure you he would not approve.

He's not having a meltdown of epic proportions. Perez might be personally progressive, but he's at most in sync with 2012, not 2016. And as you correctly point out, the DNC is mechanical. And he will favor the regressive forces in the party, even if he believes in progressive policy.

This is the biggest meltdown I've ever seen Tony have. And you seem to be basically even admitting the DNC chair has very little to do with actual policy. Feeling upset? Go grassroots, take over local parties, committees, recruit progressive candidates for Congress and take over state parties. Like I helped do last year boosting the Bernie wing of the DFL. Get over the DNC Chair, a position that's effectively equivalent to the role of the king/queen in a constitutional monarchy.

Ellison is in a very different position than any of us are, and if he would approve he certainly wouldn't express it to any of us.

He sure wouldn't express it in this level of childish absurdity, I can assure you that.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I was quite upset by the outcome of this, despite buying a little into the fear that the right would turn Ellison into a boogeyman.  I saw this as a proxy battle for something bigger than the actual position of DNC chair.

Foucaulf pointed out, however, that real change has to come from the bottom.  Democrats always want the easy way for change.. just install some token figurehead at the top and hope everything falls into line.  That's not how it works.

In order to affect change and prevent disasters like 2016 for the Democratic party, we just have to put our heads down and get on slogging.  And keep on eye on Perez, of course.

Of course. I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting anything different.

False.

Democrat - Burn'em all!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

if you are able to win seats on a local level now occupied by republicans, you are able to build.

if you are trying to wrestle the most liberal seats from more centrist democrats....you aren't going to win, imho.

Wasn't a problem when the Tea Party did things this way. Now they have the Presidency.

Try again.

Trump is not a Tea Party guy, that was Cruz. The Tea Party is basically dead. Trump is a whole different type of terrible.