POPE TO ABDICATE

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Hmmmm, the song I was listening to when I heard the news:

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[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I thought Phil would support Rick Santorum.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

How about this guy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Nh_1ByJfs

I mean he's almost certainly not Catholic, but he's very cool and charismatic! (in more than one way I just realized)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I thought Phil would support Rick Santorum.

Well, yes, he's the ideal choice. I announced that elsewhere. However, he is married.

That does not render him ineligible.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

WTF, the youngest cardinal is 53?

I imagine many people are praying for someone "young" because they fear that Malachy prophecy.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Innocent some number. 12th century I believe.

...and there's never been an African or Asian Pope either. So basically there has never been a non-European Pope, ever.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Actually I was wrong about the name. It was Adrian IV.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Phil what would be your opinion on someone who left because they wanted a church that ordained women? There's one pastor at my church who wasn't very happy with the church she was raised in's policy on female ordination (not Catholic but the same rule) but of course she got "ordained" anyway.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Cardinal Dolan is an excellent man and imho a great representative of the Church.

?

That's kind of weird to say with your social views...

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Considering that the prophecy mentions that "Peter" will be the last pope, I feel like electing this Turkson fellow is unwise.

I like this.

The prophesy was clearly broken with Ratzinger's election, though.  The 267th Pope was supposed to be the glory of the olive and all accounts are that he beat Carlo Maria Martini on the final ballot.  I mean, they force some half-assed excuse as to why Benedict XVI fits into the whole olive thing, but the real choice for glory of the olive lost.

It's something like that there's an olive branch on his coat of arms, right?

Actually not even that, it's that he took the name after a saint that founded an order that has an olive branch on their coat of arms, quite a stretch.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Phil, I agree with you, more or less, but if I can play the advocatus diaboli, answer us this: Are matters such as abortion not, for the Vatican, at heart theological issues?

The fundamental right to life is trickier, I agree, but it isn't at its core theological. Important? Yes. Extremely. But I simply don't think that jeopardizes one's relationship with Christ. Same answer for BRTD's question about female priests. That isn't grounds for me to leave the Church. That's clearly more of a theological issue than abortion but not a fundamental breaking in what the Church is built on and supposed to be. If you're more concerned with who is allowed to say mass than what is actually being said then you probably should be leaving for other reasons.

But for the girl in question it is a big deal, since it means she couldn't do what she wanted to (as I said before, not Catholic, but the same thing applied in her case with what she was raised in unless she converted.)

Actually upon re-reading Phil's statement it seems he's referring more to if he'd leave the church if women could be ordained. I'm talking about someone leaving the church because currently women are NOT ordained.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Sure, it's theological. I said that. I just don't believe it is a fundamental tenant and people shouldn't leave (either because it isn't allowed or is eventually allowed) because of it.

BRTD, read my edit. I originally thought you meant what would I do if it was allowed. I re-read it and edited my remark. If your female friend is more concerned with the important of who is saying mass than what is being said in mass then she should probably leave for other reasons. But let's call this what it is: you wanting to get into a discussion about one of your silly anecdotes that I really don't care about.

1-We don't have "mass" and neither does the church she was raised in.
2-It's not a case of being concerned over who is preaching ("saying mass" isn't really accurate here) than that SHE wanted to do it, which wouldn't be an option without converting.

But thanks for your answer. Despite what you say at the end this is actually a valid question, I see it as if conservative Catholics and complimentarian Protestants want to refuse to ordain women they have a right to their opinion, but it becomes a little absurd to expect no one to be offended and especially women to not leave in these circumstances, especially considering in most cases no one asked them if they wanted to be a part of that church.

(FWIW she basically converted to ELCA after high school and went to one of their seminaries here, so there was obvious sincerity and not just wanting to make a statement.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Just out of curiosity Harry, what do you think of the case with my friend listed above (since I know you share the same position as her on this theological issue.) Imagine she was raised Catholic instead of conservative Protestant.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Harry, what do you think about my proposal of this guy for Pope? (Sure he's not Catholic but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be an awesome pick!)