SENATE BILL: Education for the Future Bill 2013 (Law'd)

[President Tyrion]

Aye

[President Tyrion]

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Aye

[President Tyrion]

Can statistics not be considered part of mathematics?

No, it's a skill set, not a tool, really. Math is merely a tool to understand statistics.

I'm not sure what use the average person has for statistics, to be quite frank.

This is something I feel very strongly about. Americans in general haven't the slightest clue about statistics, and it is taught completely wrong at the high school level. Understanding statistics is about understanding how to ask questions which don't lead to an answer, understanding what constitutes a large enough sample upon which to base decisions, and understanding random variance. All three of those skills are incredibly important.

Statistics is an important corollary to personal finance; it's about understanding risk, reward, and expected value. Understanding the bell curve is especially important in one's employment life. I honestly think that a knowledge of statistics can make up for a lack of knowledge in other areas, as well. Those are all generalizations, and I can go into detail if you want.

[President Tyrion]

I am going to respectfully object, in part because I know Statistics was considered part of mathematics in my school and state and also because I don't necessarily think it should be a required class. Sorry

Well, statistics isn't mathematics, to me.

Understanding the law of large numbers, random chance, expected value, probability, averages, the gambler's fallacy, and regression are incredibly important to the layperson. It's an immediate need when you're trying to make decisions. When you're gambling, for example, most people don't really understand that the house always wins long term. Your highest per play variance is always at the beginning. Yet people keep playing.

When you're watching a baseball game, you think someone is "due." A certain outcome is "due" to happen because it hasn't for so long. In other words, the gambler's fallacy.

Insurance is an expected value question. What are the risks of paying out of pocket as opposed to paying a premium? Do people realize that insurance has negative real expected value, and is purchased not for surplus value, but for short-scale risk mitigation?

[President Tyrion]

I think I back Spiral and Tyrion on this (though I don't agree with Spiral on Calculus, but that's because I'm a former Math Major), Stat is something that is pretty important to your future, and an earlier start, the better.

I think calculus is important conceptually, as well, but I'm not ready to make that required just yet. Derivatives and rate of change are important to understand. Some of calculus may not be relevant to the layperson, though. We need to shore up math education before we increase requirements by leaps and bounds, in any case.

[President Tyrion]

With all due respect, Tyrion, regardless of what you might personally think, statistics is already covered under mathematics. I'm looking at my own university now, and all stats classes are listed under the Math department. Regardless of my opinion on statistics being a requirement, this amendment just isn't necessary.

My university, for the record, keeps Stat as a separate department, and I'm frankly worried that any institution would consider stats and math the same thing.

A quick search tells me that all of the top 10 universities, except Caltech, according to USNews have a separate department for stats, and Caltech has quite a few devoted courses. I think your university (and part of the country) might be the exception, not the rule. (Plus, I'm a stats major, so my university obviously has such a department, too)

In any case, I would disagree rather vehemently that "Statistics" would be covered under the present definition of mathematics.

[President Tyrion]

Aye

[President Tyrion]

Aye

[President Tyrion]

I hope if this passes, the regions who don't need the additional funds will simply not use them. We already allot a great deal of money to education. Also, why is statistics listed as a separate subject? It's always considered mathematics...

I fought pretty hard for it. Statistics is NOT mathematics; that it is considered mathematics is, in my belief, a failure of the education system.

[President Tyrion]

I hope if this passes, the regions who don't need the additional funds will simply not use them. We already allot a great deal of money to education. Also, why is statistics listed as a separate subject? It's always considered mathematics...

I fought pretty hard for it. Statistics is NOT mathematics; that it is considered mathematics is, in my belief, a failure of the education system.

It's not? Stats has always been included in the mathematics departments of nearly every school I have attended...

Also, from the Webster dictionary:

statistics: a branch of mathematics dealing with the collection, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of masses of numerical data

You may believe it's not, but the facts indicate you may be incorrect...

My point was, regardless of its classification, statistics includes a bevy of important skills that wouldn't be covered in teaching math up to algebra.

I prefer this definition of statistics (although the definition itself is a bit biased toward survey statistics):

"The practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, esp. for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample."

Whether or not statistics is "math" is an interpretive point, but its necessity, as I previously accounted, is clear.