Congratulations, Mr. Obama. Here's a missile deployment. (user search)
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  Congratulations, Mr. Obama. Here's a missile deployment. (search mode)
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Author Topic: Congratulations, Mr. Obama. Here's a missile deployment.  (Read 2993 times)
Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« on: November 05, 2008, 02:10:14 PM »

Russia to deploy short-range ballistic missiles to Kaliningrad enclave.

So Medvedev/Putin created a crisis earlier than Biden thought...
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2008, 11:58:40 AM »

The sensible thing would be the removal of the missile shield. Of course it shouldn't have been placed at all - another Bush "present" to Obama.
The Russian reaction is the correct response, even if the timing is rather bad.

It hasn't been placed as yet, IIRC. It's what, 10 interceptors against how many Russian ICBMs, SLBMs and bombers?
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2008, 01:26:30 PM »

The sensible thing would be the removal of the missile shield. Of course it shouldn't have been placed at all - another Bush "present" to Obama.
The Russian reaction is the correct response, even if the timing is rather bad.

It hasn't been placed as yet, IIRC. It's what, 10 interceptors against how many Russian ICBMs, SLBMs and bombers?
It can easily be expanded and it also be reconfigured for offensive use.

A lot of things can be easily done- you could easily modify the "Backfire" to have intercontinental range by sticking the refuelling probes back in, you could easily stick a stand-off nuke on an Su-35 and you can easily download porn of Paris Hilton.

Doesn't mean Medvedev, Putin or Obama will do those things, of course.
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2008, 03:41:08 PM »
« Edited: November 06, 2008, 03:47:11 PM by Mr. London/Essex »

Neither have the actions of the Russian Federation these last 17 years inspired American trust and goodwill.

Especially in regards with gas flows.
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2008, 12:36:49 PM »

For most of this period Russia tried to be friendly with the US and to follow their lead in foreign policy.

They essentially prevented a UN resolution on Kosova, then jumped into Pristina Airport at the last moment.

They sold fighters to Iran until recently, as well as to China.

The USSR doesn't exist, but to quote a James Bond movie, different name, same friendly service- polonium is on the house.
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 9,408
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2008, 04:25:03 PM »

For most of this period Russia tried to be friendly with the US and to follow their lead in foreign policy.

They essentially prevented a UN resolution on Kosova, then jumped into Pristina Airport at the last moment.

They sold fighters to Iran until recently, as well as to China.

The USSR doesn't exist, but to quote a James Bond movie, different name, same friendly service- polonium is on the house.

And which helped China more - the Russians selling them some planes or the US awarding them Most Favoured Nation status, so they have money to build planes on their own?
The US also sold weapons to Iran, though they were less open about it.

The former really- the J-7 is a MiG-21 modification, the H-6 is a Tu-16, the Q-5 is a MiG-15 and, in a slightly different area, there's Varyag...
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2008, 04:33:15 PM »

For most of this period Russia tried to be friendly with the US and to follow their lead in foreign policy.

They essentially prevented a UN resolution on Kosova, then jumped into Pristina Airport at the last moment.

They sold fighters to Iran until recently, as well as to China.

The USSR doesn't exist, but to quote a James Bond movie, different name, same friendly service- polonium is on the house.

And which helped China more - the Russians selling them some planes or the US awarding them Most Favoured Nation status, so they have money to build planes on their own?
The US also sold weapons to Iran, though they were less open about it.

The former really- the J-7 is a MiG-21 modification, the H-6 is a Tu-16, the Q-5 is a MiG-15 and, in a slightly different area, there's Varyag...
All those transfers happened in the 60s. What have the Russians done more recently which is more beneficial than the MFN status?

Varyag was early 1990s. The Su-35 probable transfer is at the present...
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2008, 05:01:33 PM »

Still, it's the Su-35, which is a pretty good plane...
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2008, 05:09:27 PM »

They may not have been hostile, but their actions weren't exactly encouraging to US trust and goodwill.
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2008, 05:32:09 PM »

No, but you still shouldn't fly the aerial equivalent of a Disaster Area concert on mock attacks against North America.
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2008, 06:38:18 AM »

No, but you still shouldn't fly the aerial equivalent of a Disaster Area concert on mock attacks against North America.
When did this happen?

Fairly recently- Tu-95 and Tu-160s have been doing the mock attacks the former was doing on a very frequent basis during the Cold War, including one on Hull (maybe they don't like the football team).

The Tu-95 is an insanely loud aircraft, which can be picked up by submarine sonar underwater and routinely causes hearing problems among crews and intercepting pilots.
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2008, 03:52:53 PM »

The Tu-95's prop tips break the sound barrier when they go round. That's why they're loud.

The Tu-160, on the other hand, is superior in some respects to the B-1B.
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2008, 12:54:03 PM »

With regards to this ABM deployment, why not have the US and Russia negotiate a new ABM Treaty as part of the START renewal talks?

The US would be limited to a set number of interceptors and Russia would be able to increase the number it had to that level. 500 each sound good?
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 9,408
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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2008, 12:55:58 PM »

With regards to this ABM deployment, why not have the US and Russia negotiate a new ABM Treaty as part of the START renewal talks?

The US would be limited to a set number of interceptors and Russia would be able to increase the number it had to that level. 500 each sound good?
There was an existing treaty, which the US abandoned. Why should they enter a new treaty?

Because they support the intrinsic idea of a missile shield against rogue states like Iran? After all, they offered the use of Qadala for it.

The 1972 ABM Treaty limited the two superpowers to one collection of interceptors each, with up to 100 interceptors in total. However, we are not in the Cold War any more.

An ABM II would take this into account and allow Russia to maintain a reasonable nuclear deterrent.
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2008, 12:41:22 PM »

Russia wouldn't need to spend that much on increasing its missile system- basically a conversion of the S-400 system, which is already road-mobile.
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Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 9,408
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2008, 11:44:57 AM »

Yes, such an ABM treaty would be better than the current situation, but the US hasn't indicated any interest, leaving Russia no choice.

There's always a choice. They could make the first move.
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