UK General Discussion: 2019 and onwards, The End of May

[Silent Hunter]

The issue there is that she is extremely partisan and has never bothered to negotiate or compromise with anyone outside her party, other than the DUP. Which makes it rather difficult to start now.

This is true. This is also something not unique to her.

[Silent Hunter]

Wait if Lib Dems had voted for customs union instead of abstaining it would have passed lol

They want to Remain and facilitating any Brexit would finish the party off.

The EU isn't just the customs union.

[Silent Hunter]

Not the name I'd have used...

That means there's the real possibility that Labour will be the only parliamentary without a female leader, depending on how long May holds out for.

[Silent Hunter]

If we have Euro elections, I may well vote for them. They're going to be running for London for certain.

[Silent Hunter]

This thing has more deaths than some Time Lords...

[Silent Hunter]

It's not going to affect you mind. It's definitely going to affect me.

[Silent Hunter]

Again, with all due respect, you won't actually have to deal with the consequences in New York State.

[Silent Hunter]

Again, with all due respect, you won't actually have to deal with the consequences in New York State.

Off topic question, can UK citizens still move to the EU (permanently) or has the cut off date passed?

We can at the moment without a work permit, but if we No Deal, that would end immediately. Under the (dead at present) Withdrawal Agreement, free movement would end at the end of 2020.

****
Also, we have no provision for a binding referendum in our system and David Cameron did promise to implement the result.

[Silent Hunter]

Again, with all due respect, you won't actually have to deal with the consequences in New York State.

I have numerous family members that live in London so that's false.

My sister, father, some of my aunts and uncles, etc live in the UK. They immigrated to the UK decades ago from Jamaica.

I stand corrected. They will be affected, though. Why do you want a No Deal Brexit on 12 April with all the consequences that would entail for their lives?

[Silent Hunter]

It's been pushed back only to 12 April, unless we present a clear way forward to the European Council, which is having an emergency summit on 10 April.

[Silent Hunter]

Nick Boles (Grantham) has resigned from the Conservative Party literally in the Commons Chamber.

FWIW, Grantham is the birthplace of Margaret Thatcher.

[Silent Hunter]

Some Labour MPs defied the party whip and the DUP voted against everything.

[Silent Hunter]

The thing is, even if we No Deal, that doesn't end the matter, as someone will have to resolve the way out of this mess with the EU...

My country is a joke tonight.

[Silent Hunter]

Can't they chose their favourite votes via preferential ballot or something?

They already have the option to vote for as many options as they want, and are just trying to game the system by voting down options that they actually could live with so they can get their preferred option. However, there may some validity to the argument that it is naive to expect parliament to solve Brexit in a week when the government couldn't do it in nearly three years. If Theresa May hadn't made leaving the customs union a red line then perhaps a less divisive and easier Brexit would have been possible, however after the last 3 years trying to get a compromise from scratch is much harder in 2019 than it would have been in the aftermath of the referendum.

The thing is, for May's 'red lines', her Withdrawal Agreement doesn't actually deliver on any of them except for ending Freedom of Movement from the end of 2020, because of the backstop...

[Silent Hunter]

It would not only have serious short term impacts, and would cripple the governments output, but would seriously harm our economy for the next 10 years.

Or until we rejoin the European Union, with Schengen, the Euro and all.

[Silent Hunter]

And some in the British Army have literally used his picture for target practice!

[Silent Hunter]

It's worth remembering that EU leaders say things for domestic audiences just as much as any politician.

The problem is that there is no reasonable prospect of Britain sorting itself out by 12 April and forcing No Deal won't fix that either...

[Silent Hunter]

I certainly wouldn't. It doesn't give us anything it couldn't do as part of Ireland.

[Silent Hunter]

91 Tory MPs voted against a Government-backed amendment to not limit the powers of the Brexit Secretary in negotiating Brexit Day i.e. can change the date without a positive commons vote. With a defeat of 180, that's the second biggest Government defeat in history... the first being MV1.

Mostly ERG, which some are taking as the manifestation of a threatened backbencher strike.

[Silent Hunter]

Commons sitting suspended for the day after the roof starts leaking

[Silent Hunter]

June 30 is a typical May "compromise" which satisfies neither side really.

Unless we no deal in the next week or two (increasingly unlikely) the UK is very likely staying in until at least the end of this year.

I'd personally agree. Tusk is supporting an extension and his views carry great weight with the EU27.

[Silent Hunter]

We're of course just getting the Labour PoV from this. Not surprised May can't make any meaningful compromise; well over half her party would never back it.

[Silent Hunter]

It seems to me that Labour should jump on a confirmatory referendum on May's deal.

Remain vs. May's deal...I think we know how that would turn out. 😁

Exactly, which is why the Tories won't agree with it.

[Silent Hunter]

There's no guarantee that the next Tory PM would uphold any deal made by May; the Political Declaration is non-binding, a confirmatory referendum could be ignored because that's 'not binding' (a common refrain of Remainers) even if it was allowed to take place.

This is a mess on every level.

[Silent Hunter]

The UK and Ireland didn't have a customs union before they joined the EEC together in 1973; the customs posts on the border were themselves not closed until the Single Market was created in 1992.