Consumer Spending Better than Expected (user search)
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  Consumer Spending Better than Expected (search mode)
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Author Topic: Consumer Spending Better than Expected  (Read 2494 times)
Sam Spade
SamSpade
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« on: March 10, 2009, 12:31:02 AM »

Beware - Consumer spending is usually a lagging indicator.

One of the things I've been noticing this month is that some of the lagging indicators are slowing slight bounces, whereas the leading indicators are getting crushed even more.

That a sign to be careful, but a sign that we should get a faux bounce fairly soon.
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Sam Spade
SamSpade
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2009, 11:36:59 AM »

Beware - Consumer spending is usually a lagging indicator.

One of the things I've been noticing this month is that some of the lagging indicators are slowing slight bounces, whereas the leading indicators are getting crushed even more.

That a sign to be careful, but a sign that we should get a faux bounce fairly soon.

Consumer spending is the problem. The supply-siders have run this country into the ground. The problem is a lack of demand. The consumers are too scared to spend any money than they have to, even if they are lucky enough to still be employed.

Also, a lot of the money is going to the wrong areas. Defense? No. Tax cuts. No. Large banks? No. It's time for the money to go to new temporary workers, small businesses, and consumers.

Huh?  Consumer spending is the problem, so more money should go to the consumers?

One of the big forces driving of a lot of the irregularities that will, in time, have to be corrected, is the fact that most of the focus and energy of the world's economy has been on the US consumer (or actually if you want to be broad - Western consumers).  It is simply unsustainable and is presently collapsing in on itself, most likely because the American consumer reach the point of peak debt saturation (my guess).

This problem really, in a certain sense, touches every area of this debt-deflation.  For example, the US (and certain state governments) could not fund its massive pension and health care plans (which are growing at rates much greater than we can ever catch up with them) without this dynamic in place where the US can become a massive debtor nation backing up its credit on increasing the liabilities of the American consumer.  To be fair, we could also not fund our massive military without this dynamic either.

Moreover, the growth in the rest of the developing world was based on placating the American consumer and undercutting the American wage level.  This dynamic survived the last 25 years (its heyday was the last 15 years really) simply because we were able to replace those jobs with high-paying ones in the service and financial sectors.  Well, as you can obviously figure, the service and financial sectors are in the midst of complete collapse here (even though certain half-assed attempts are being made at rebuilding it - see "cap and trade" for example - although that will undoubtedly result in a trade war of some sort with China - more later)

So what does this mean - we're going to have get a decent bit of our old production economy back?  And the only way that will happen is through major wage cuts (or reduction/elimination of many pension/health care benefits, probably both actually) to compete with foreign labor.

When, as I believe will happen, this "financial crisis" or "credit crisis" hits full tilt (which we ain't anywhere near yet), expect it to become a "governmental crisis".  And not just here.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2009, 11:39:33 AM »

Nate Silver convinced me that the fat cats on Wall Street wailing about the end of capitalism and the onset of socialism are just throwing themselves a "pity party," as he put it.  All the big wigs who stand lose millions (or perhaps billions) now that there are going to be rules and regulations to keep them from cheating the system are sinking the market to artificial lows.  Perhaps this is the biggest economic hit the US has taken since the Great Depression but its still not nearly that bad and it likely never will be.  Most projections I've heard are putting the end of this recession sometime after July next year.  The rich dudes are just having trouble adjusting to the new reality of things.

Nate Silver should stick to political analysis and away from policy and economic analysis.

This piece is almost hilariously bad.
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Sam Spade
SamSpade
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2009, 10:47:09 PM »

I don't think the service sector as a whole is a waste- there is certainly healthy demand for services, per se. The financial sector won't recovery for a long time probably, but that's as much a function of how bloated it was at one point in this decade than anything else.

I don't think I was implying the service sector is a waste, but rather that it enlarged far beyond its real needs in the economy to make up for manufacturing losses.  For example, there simply is little need for employees for thousands of stores selling crappy over-priced apparel to teenage girls - I have often been surprised over the past few years how much that dominates the malls of this country.

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I'm not suggesting that we become a low cost industrial exporter, Beet.  All I'm just saying is that the trade imbalances must be dealt with (so we probably agree there), and in order for that to occur, the US must manufacture more of its own products (and yes - tech is part of that).  This, in turn, will help any recovery to replace job losses caused by the collapse of the financial/service sectors in the upcoming months.
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