Obama on Small-Town Pennsylvania...

[Sam Spade]

Politico's Ben Smith has quoted this from Huffington Post blogger Mayhill Fowler.  His article, of course, has now made it onto Drudge.  I quote from the original article, but have linked both:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_religion_guns_xenophobia.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html

And when he spoke to a group of his wealthier Golden State backers at a San Francisco fund-raiser last Sunday, Barack Obama took a shot at explaining the yawning cultural gap that separates a Turkeyfoot from a Marin County.

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said.

"And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not."

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Thoughts?

[Sam Spade]

Essentially correct but an extremely dumb thing to say.  He should apologize.

Pretty much an Obama gaffe RSS feed, aren't you Sam? 

The positions of Clinton and McCain gaffe RSS feed were already taken at this site and I suspect very other few people would have lined up for the position.  Besides, the pay's good. 

[Sam Spade]

I'm not surprised of the forum's opinion on his remarks concerning guns, religion and anti-immigrant ideas, but I would have thought differently on anti-trade ideas.  Or maybe there are more free-traders here than I thought.

[Sam Spade]

I'm not surprised of the forum's opinion on his remarks concerning guns, religion and anti-immigrant ideas, but I would have thought differently on anti-trade ideas.  Or maybe there are more free-traders here than I thought.

What about people's responses about this statement indicate their own views about trade?

Although the statement was made in context to small-town PA, there's a direct line between "when they getting bitter" ---> "they cling to anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain frustrations" in his comments.

[Sam Spade]

Obama has never lived in the real America.  Therefore, his inability to connect with real Americans is unsurprising.

Here's the important question?  Has Obama ever lived in or visited "New America"?

[Sam Spade]

I like the fact that jfern posts the whole quote of the line from the speech with the idea that it makes Obama look less condescending.  Only in Berkeley...

[Sam Spade]

This isn't actually getting any coverage is it? Amusing as the media's general attitude towards the non-metropolitan working class is even worse, far worse actually, than what Obama's seems to be (ie; at least he doesn't seem to view them with contempt). Still think it's sad that someone from his background thinks along those lines though.

Of course it's getting coverage.  Why do you think I posted it when I first saw it?  I'm not saying that I can smell every gaffe that has impact a mile away, but this one was obvious. 

Btw, I agree with you about the media's general attitude.  Personally, I don't know whether we know enough yet to where we can conclude one way or other that Obama's attitude includes "contempt".  Certainly not from this statement.

However, that doesn't mean that a good bit of "small-town America" won't impugn contempt onto these words when/if they hear them.

[Sam Spade]

If this forum was an accurate slice of ordinary people in America, I would have no interest in posting here.  

Perhaps, it is an accurate slice of 18-21 year-old Obama supporters and a couple of posters perhaps represent the typical Kossack, but as to other people outside this demographic, most posters can only assess these persons through their own limited worldview, so naturally everything is wrong.  It's kind of like trying to talk to a New Yorker about northern Florida - with most there is simply no hope.

This remark has caused damage, will continue to cause damage and I almost don't know what can be done to stop it for now, except for ignoring it (which would be my strategy - let it die down) or apologizing for it (which will never be done)

(now for those of you with above-average examination skills - I have now done an Obamaization on the forum community)  

[Sam Spade]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

And, of course, some people find a certain sort of pity even more offensive than outright contempt.

Ah, so in other words, people who are poor and downtrodden and bitter don't react sympathetically to someone saying "I feel sorry for you, son, because you're so poor and downtrodden and bitter that you've started doing X."

Of course, I suspect this sentiment extends far beyond "small-town America".

[Sam Spade]

what Obama said was entirely true. People who would get blindly offended at them are probably not democrats, and would probably never vote for a democrat.

Well, no, what Obama said is not true, and while you might not be hearing about it down in Texas, its currently flooding the airwaves here and people all across the board are pissed off.  You people seem to have forgotten that you have a base of old school, lower class white Democrats who often make the difference in election... and who also happen to be a major factor in all those congressional districts you took back in '06.

Depends on which part of Texas, but not the part he's in, for sure.

[Sam Spade]

I think the thing is that many Dem voters in the swing category, just think Obama is more honest and has a better temperament than Hillary. He exudes a calm and collected personage. His slips of the tongue will have to erode that image, his core appeal, in order for Hillary to break through the Maginot Line arrayed against her.

You may be quite right on this one.  Of course, it is quite possible (as I am currently leaning more and more to believing) that the amount of Dem voters in the swing category during this primary may be as numerous in percentage terms as those voters in the 2004 general.

[Sam Spade]

I think the thing is that many Dem voters in the swing category, just think Obama is more honest and has a better temperament than Hillary. He exudes a calm and collected personage. His slips of the tongue will have to erode that image, his core appeal, in order for Hillary to break through the Maginot Line arrayed against her.

You may be quite right on this one.  Of course, it is quite possible (as I am currently leaning more and more to believing) that the amount of Dem voters in the swing category during this primary may be as numerous in percentage terms as those voters in the 2004 general.

If you mean, there aren't any swing voters in play relatively speaking as between Obama and Clinton in the Dem primary, I tend to think that is not the case. The key of course is for one of them to appear to run much better against McCain than the other, to break things loose. Most base voters tend to be partisan hacks. Who knew?

Maybe - but what is that point? (the $64,000 question - this comment certainly doesn't help Obama in that regard)

I'm referring to those voters who will swing, absent your stated reason.  My basic theory is that nothing has changed in this regard since SC (with the exception of GOP/Indy interlopers), more than 5% one way or another.

[Sam Spade]

I just got home from work and I have to lol at this hitting 23 pages. This is the stupidest excuse for a scandal I've ever seen. This almost makes the Rev. Wright scandal seem legitimate by comparison.

lol - and its far from done too...

[Sam Spade]

LOL@this thread being almost twice as long as Erc's delegate counting thread.

Seriously guys:

Good to see you're about as clueless as usual.  And I bet you wish one of your millions of threads could spark nearly 400 replies that weren't mostly about how stupid the author of the post is.

[Sam Spade]

Nearly 450 posts in about 50 hours.  Beautiful.  Next on the spotlight - PA-13... 

[Sam Spade]

The fun continues...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D901A22G3&show_article=1
 
Obama Turns Table on Clinton
Apr 13 08:07 PM US/Eastern
By BETH FOUHY
Associated Press Writer

STEELTON, Penn. (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama lashed out Sunday at rival Hillary Rodham Clinton, mocking her sudden vocal support for gun rights and saying he understands the concerns of working class people.
"She knows better. Shame on her. Shame on her," Obama told an audience at a union hall here.

The Illinois senator has spent two days on the defensive after comments he made at a San Francisco fundraiser suggesting working class people are bitter about their economic circumstances and "cling to guns and religion" as a result. Clinton has pounded him for the remarks, calling him "elitist and divisive."

After reiterating his regret for his choice of words, Obama turned the tables on Clinton—mocking, among other things, her sudden fealty to the rights of gun owners.

"She is running around talking about how this is an insult to sportsman, how she values the second amendment. She's talking like she's Annie Oakley," Obama said, invoking the famed female sharpshooter immortalized in the musical "Anne Get Your Gun."

Obama continued, saying "Hillary Clinton is out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday. She's packing a six-shooter. Come on, she knows better. That's some politics being played by Hillary Clinton."
Personally, I have no idea how anyone could shoot a duck with a six-shooter, but maybe things changed since I last went hunting.

[Sam Spade]

This is amazing!  Thirty-eight pages!  I didn't even catch the sound-bite on the news till after Sam posted the topic, and even then I didn't think it was worth a thread.  Am I out of touch or what?

Sam, you ought to be giving stock-market advice.  By the way, you got any?  I'm tanking over here.  Not bad enough to take up hunting or attending mass, but it's been a rough quarter. 

Unless you're playing the long term, I would have been out of the market six months ago, or in the General Mills/Proctor & Gamble area of the world.  I live too close to Wall St. to not ignore the attitude that I see from those types (who actually control the market in their own way).

I mean, if you want to play the foreign markets or commodities especially, go ahead.  I still think there's some money to be made there for the time being (don't know how much longer).  One of these days people will wake up to the absolute stupidity of the biofuel concept and one of these days, demand will fall to such a level (because of economic downturn) that the commodities will turn downhill a bit.  Same basic type scenario will happen to the dollar, but not yet.  My gut says to wait until fall 2008, at the earliest.

If you have some investment money or are an investment type, I think we're close to reaching the point where the foreclosure deals are starting to look good enough that I would start buying real estate.  Especially in places like Florida, where they're selling condos (from what an old investor told me) they're selling these things at 20 cents on the dollar.  But this requires money, and well, the ability to survey the area.  But much like in Houston during the mid-to-late 1980s, the aftermath of the crash leaves some really great opportunities if you've got the money.

Glad to see the thread at reply #579 and counting.  This story is far from over.

[Sam Spade]

600 posts in 5 days is quite impressive for a site like this.

[Sam Spade]

Interesting...  Apparently, "elitist" is now a code word for "n".  Who knew?  The best comment of this piece is bolded...

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-shipler16apr16,0,2335261.story

The resonance of racism

In a nation steeped in stereotypes, candidates' words can hit a nerve.
By David K. Shipler
April 16, 2008

Whether by calculation or coincidence, Hillary Clinton and Republicans who have attacked Barack Obama for elitism have struck a chord in a long-standing symphony of racial codes. It is a rebuke that gets magnified by historic beliefs about what blacks are and what they have no right to be.

Clinton is no racist, and Obama has made some real missteps, including his remark last week that "bitter" small-town Americans facing economic hardship and government indifference "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them." Perhaps he was being more sociological than political, and more sympathetic than condescending. But when his opponents branded him an elitist and an outsider, his race made it easier to drive a wedge between him and the white, rural voters he has courted. As an African American, he was supposedly looking down from a place he didn't belong and looking in from a distance he could not cross.

This could not happen as dramatically were it not for embedded racial attitudes. "Elitist" is another word for "arrogant," which is another word for "uppity," that old calumny applied to blacks who stood up for themselves.

At the bottom of the American psyche, race is still about power, and blacks who move up risk triggering discomfort among some whites. I've met black men who, when stopped by white cops at night, think the best protection is to act dumb and deferential.

Furthermore, casting Obama as "out of touch" plays harmoniously with the traditional notion of blacks as "others" at the edge of the mainstream, separate from the whole. Despite his ability to articulate the frustration and yearning of broad segments of Americans, his "otherness" has been highlighted effectively by right-wingers who harp on his Kenyan father and spread false rumors that he's a clandestine Muslim.

In a country so changed that a biracial man who is considered black has a shot at the presidency, the subterranean biases are much less discernible now than when the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated. They are subtle, unacknowledged and unacceptable in polite company. But they lurk below, lending resonance to the criticisms of Obama. Black professionals know the double standard. They are often labeled negatively for traits deemed positive in whites: A white is assertive, a black is aggressive; a white is resolute, a black is pushy; a white is candid, a black is abrasive; a white is independent, a black is not a team player. Prejudice is a shape shifter, adapting to acceptable forms.

So although Obama's brilliance defies the stubborn stereotype of African Americans as unintelligent, there is a companion to that image -- doubts about blacks' true capabilities -- that may heighten concerns about his inexperience. Through the racial lens, a defect can be enlarged into a disability. He is "not ready," a phrase employed often when blacks are up for promotion.

When Clinton mocked Obama for the supposed emptiness of his eloquence, the chiding had a faint historical echo from Thomas Jefferson's musings in "Notes on the State of Virginia" that "in music they are more generally gifted than the whites with accurate ears for tune and time," but "one could scarcely be found capable of tracing and comprehending the investigations of Euclid."

This slander that blacks had more show than substance was handed down through later generations as a body-mind dichotomy, with physical and mental prowess as opposites. Overt "compliments" -- they've got rhythm, they can dance, they can jump -- were paired with the silent assumption of inferior intellect.

Clinton surely had no racial intent, but none is needed for a racial impact. In a society long steeped in stereotypes, such comments reverberate. The incessant loop of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. cursing America and repeating old conspiracy theories has revived fears of black anger among whites whose threshold of tolerance for such rage has always been low. No matter that Obama seems anything but angry. A few sentences from his pastor are enough to incite such anxieties.

The nation is testing how its racial attitudes have evolved. As the campaign continues, we are likely to be both pleased and disappointed with ourselves.

David K. Shipler is the author of "A Country of Strangers: Blacks and Whites in America" and "The Working Poor: Invisible in America."

[Sam Spade]

Read this comment and found it interesting...

"The white working class has gone to the Republican nominee for many elections, going back even to the Clinton years. This is not new that Democratic candidates don’t rely solely on those votes." - David Axelrod, Obama's chief strategist.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Overvaluing_downscale_whites.html