Third Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia

[True Democrat]

As the prime author of this constitution, I believe it is a comprehensive plan on reforming Atlasia, and I urge the Senate to pass it.

[True Democrat]

I don't mean to quibble, but I just noticed: Articles IV and VI seem to refer to the "Senate," when they should probably be referring either to the Natl. Assembly or to Congress. It seems like these were copied out of the present constitution, but without being adapted or modified.

You are completely correct.  It should just say "Legislature" instead of Senate.  I believe that this is not a big change, so I don't believe it would take a forma amendment.

[True Democrat]

I don't mean to quibble, but I just noticed: Articles IV and VI seem to refer to the "Senate," when they should probably be referring either to the Natl. Assembly or to Congress. It seems like these were copied out of the present constitution, but without being adapted or modified.

You are completely correct.  It should just say "Legislature" instead of Senate.  I believe that this is not a big change, so I don't believe it would take a forma amendment.

I've fixed them on the copy on my wiki page, if you want to update it.

[True Democrat]

May I suggest that the Senate take a straw poll on this issue now?

[True Democrat]

I have made all the changes Ernest suggested.

[True Democrat]

I would like to give my opinion on the amendments suggested:

Demi-Amendment 1

1. Article I Section 1 Clause 1 is struck and replaced by "1. Members of the National Assembly shall be elected in a single nationwide vote in such numbers and using such method as is established by Law.  Any change in numbers or method shall take effect as of the next general election of the National Assembly."

2. The introductory provisions of Article VII Section 2 Clause 2 is struck and replaced by "The National Assembly shall consist of fifteen members, elected using the Sainte-Laguë system, with the following characteristics:

I think this is a fair compromise.  I have no problem with allowing the National Assembly to establish its own number of members.

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If you are referring to Section Two or Aticle IV, there are 16 clauses, so I don't understand why you only have fifteen.

Amendment 1

Article I Section 2 Clause 6 is struck and Clauses 7 thru 9 of Article I Section 2 renumbered as Clauses 6 thru 8.

Instead of getting rid of the budget provision altogether, I would propose something like this for a change:

The Prime Minister must present a budget to the National Assembly as frequently as set by Law with the following parts. . .

The wording on that might not be perfect, but I think that gives the government a chance to decide how often is should set its own budget, but still requires a budget.

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Because I copied this directly from the current constitution, I didn't take into account that unlike th President, the Senate would really have to debate each bill.  Instead of fourteen days, I would suggested putting it as:

If a Bill is not returned to the National Assembly by the Senate within a time as set by Law after it shall have been presented to the Senate, it shall become Law regardless.

EDIT: Or we could say instead of set by Law, set by the National Assembly.  Just another idea.

Also, in the last article, we could mandate 14 days.  This would allow the time period to be 14 days when the new government starts, but would also allow government to set it by law.

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This was a mistake on my part, and I completely agree with this amendment.

Enumerated Powers Amendment

1. Article I Section 3 Clause 4  is struck and replaced by: "All powers of the Republic of Atlasia not exclusively delegated to the Supreme Court or Senate of Atlasia shall be given to the National Assembly."

2. The following is added as Section Three: Enumerated Powers to Article IV:

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While I agree with Section One with this amendment, as it makes clear that the National Assembly shall not intrude on the Supreme Court's sphere of influence, I must disagree with Section Two, for the reasons ColinW has in the other thread.  Because there are no regions, we do not need this list of powers.  We only need to restrict powers, not tell the National Assembly which powers it has.  Ernest, I would encourage you to split this into two amendments, as the first section is universally agreed upon, IMHO.

[True Democrat]

I think the idea ColinW has proposed is a great compromise.

[True Democrat]

I think a two thirds majority in both houses with no national referendum is the best way to add a duty to the enumerated powers.  Also Ernest, I would just like to make sure you added the minimum wage to your list of enumerated powers.

[True Democrat]

I think a two thirds majority in both houses with no national referendum is the best way to add a duty to the enumerated powers.  Also Ernest, I would just like to make sure you added the minimum wage to your list of enumerated powers.

So since it failed a vote through the constitutionally required procedure, you just want to throw it in the new constitution anyway?

It failed as a constitutional amendment because most people believe regions should set mimimum wage.  However, because there are no regions in this constitution, somebody must be able to set the mimimum wage.  The federal government is the only option.

[True Democrat]

Honestly people, debate on this constitution should be put above any other bill.  We need to vote on the amendments and pass a reformed constitution as soon as possible.

[True Democrat]

BRTD, this amendment is really just clearing up the language in the constitution.  It's not really changing the structure.

[True Democrat]

This has to be added to Article VII (I think Section One):

The first Senate election shall be in Febuary 2007.

Right now, the first Senate election wouldn't be for two months after the first National Assembly election.

Also, is someone changing the wiki version with the passed amendments?

[True Democrat]

Can we stop this procedural debate and get back to the substantive stuff?

[True Democrat]

Has anyone made the changes to the wiki copy, or do you want me to do that?

[True Democrat]

Two things need to be added to this constitution.

First, right before the constitution passes the Senate, we need to change Article VII depending what time of the year it passes the Senate, because either the first session of the Senate or National Assembly is only two months, in order to stagger them properly.  Right now, it's the Senate, but I was assuming it would pass before the February elections, which looks unlikely.

Second, we need to make provisions about how this will be passed by the general public, or are we just treating this as an amendment to the current constitution.

I also made the changes to the Wiki copy of all the amendments passed.

[True Democrat]

Ernest, would you add an amendment if the enumerated powers amendment passes that would allow a power to be added to the enumerated powers list if two-thirds of both the National Assembly and the Senate agree?

[True Democrat]

Ernest, your compromise about needing less votes to add enumerated powers is acceptable to me.

I'd like someone to introduce an amendment that adds the minimum wage as an enumerated power.

[True Democrat]

The amendment has been added.

[True Democrat]

This amendment has passed.

And the wiki has been updated.

[True Democrat]

Jas, youo're correct.  One area I forgot to include is impeachment.  I believe that impeachment should occur as it does in the actual US government.  The original trial should be in the National Assembly, requiring a majority vote to impeach.  Then, the Senate must convict the person with two thirds of the vote.  The Chief Justice will preside over the preceedings in the National Assembly and Senate.  If the Chief Justice is being impeached, the senior Associate Justice presides.  Can someone put this into amendment form?

[True Democrat]

Here's the amendment for impeachmet.  I'm not sure which article to put it under, so I don't know the Section number, but here you go:

Section X: Impeachment Procedures

1. All civil Officers of the Republic of Atlasia, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
2. Impeachment proceedings may begin when any member of the National Assembly bring charges against any civil officer of Atlasia.  Impeachment shall be added to the possible agenda, as set by the Prime Minister, however if five members of the National Assembly petition for impeachment proceedings to occur, the Prime Minister can be overruled and the impeachment proceedings shall be moved to the top of the agenda.
3. If a majority of the members of the National Assembly shall consent, the charges of impeachment against any civil officer, the said civil officer shall be impeached.
4. The Senate will then vote on the articles of impeachment, requiring a two thirds majority to convict any person accused of the aforementioned crimes.
5. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Atlasia shall preside over all impeachment trials in the National Assembly and Senate, unless the Chief Justice is the subject of impeachment, in which case the senior Associate Justice of the Supreme Court shall preside.
6. Any member of the National Assembly or Senate accused of impeachment shall not be eligible to vote on his own impeachment.

Could someone introduce it?  Also, I'm not sure about the language.

[True Democrat]

Here's the amendment for impeachmet.  I'm not sure which article to put it under, so I don't know the Section number, but here you go:

Section X: Impeachment Procedures

1. All civil Officers of the Republic of Atlasia, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
2. Impeachment proceedings may begin when any member of the National Assembly bring charges against any civil officer of Atlasia.  Impeachment shall be added to the possible agenda, as set by the Prime Minister, however if five members of the National Assembly petition for impeachment proceedings to occur, the Prime Minister can be overruled and the impeachment proceedings shall be moved to the top of the agenda.
3. If a majority of the members of the National Assembly shall consent, the charges of impeachment against any civil officer, the said civil officer shall be impeached.
4. The Senate will then vote on the articles of impeachment, requiring a two thirds majority to convict any person accused of the aforementioned crimes.
5. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Atlasia shall preside over all impeachment trials in the National Assembly and Senate, unless the Chief Justice is the subject of impeachment, in which case the senior Associate Justice of the Supreme Court shall preside.
6. Any member of the National Assembly or Senate accused of impeachment shall not be eligible to vote on his own impeachment.

Could someone introduce it?  Also, I'm not sure about the language.

I introduce this amendment on behalf of the President.

We have to pick an article for it to go under.  I'm really not sure since it deals with all impeachments.

[True Democrat]

I still need input into where to put this into the constitution.

[True Democrat]

Vote on this amendment: That Article VII, Section 2, Clause 2, Sub-clause 3 be removed and the subsequent sub-clause be re-numbered accordingly.

Did this amendment ever pass?

[True Democrat]

I still need input into where to put this into the constitution.

I'd say as either Article III et S (3½) or as Section Two of Article III.

Why in the article with the Supreme Court?