Vice Presidential Election Amendment (At Final Vote)

[Јas]

Would anyone run for the Vice Presidency?
Is it worth considering getting rid of the office altogether?

[Јas]

Would anyone run for the Vice Presidency?
Is it worth considering getting rid of the office altogether?

Wouldn't that lead to a health mess of other issues? 

Would it? I don't know. Let's discuss it.

The VP does cast at least 1 or 2 tiebreaking votes a senate

Hardly the most difficult one to overcome. Assign the tie-breaking role to someone else, e.g. the PPT or the President, or set a rule that a tied vote equates to a fail or something. Whatever.

and many a times has assumed the presidency.  Who would be next in command for the presidency?  All the cabinet members are unelected and picking one governor or senator would be absurd

Mandate a new election within X days. Mandate someone to step in as acting President, PPT or SoEA or whoever.

[Јas]

I don't see how giving the PPT an extra vote is a good idea, its like making them a double senator.  Giving the power to the president is a possibility, but not a good one.  I fail to see why we would need to eliminate the office, that serves no purpose.

Please explain why giving the power to the President isn't a good idea, whilest retaining it for the VP is.

Having a non-elected official take over as VP is also a bad idea, takes away so many rights.

Please list the 'so many rights' that would be taken away.

[Јas]

I don't see how giving the PPT an extra vote is a good idea, its like making them a double senator.  Giving the power to the president is a possibility, but not a good one.  I fail to see why we would need to eliminate the office, that serves no purpose.

Please explain why giving the power to the President isn't a good idea, whilest retaining it for the VP is.

The VP and president can share differences of opinion that are good for the country

I'm sure that's the answer to some question, but I don't see how it answers the one I asked.
Please either explain further or come up with another answer.

Having a non-elected official take over as VP is also a bad idea, takes away so many rights.

Please list the 'so many rights' that would be taken away.

The right to have a VP they elected.  At least if the president picks a new one, that's someone the president picked and the senate confirmed (to be VP before you say the SoFA, SoEA, or AG is appointed by the president)

Again, you do realise that's not actually answering my question?
I await the other 'so many' reasons with interest.

[Јas]

OK - I'll break real simple for you

President getting to vote in senate not good
Non-elected person being VP also not good

I didn't ask you to repeat yourself, I asked you to explain yourself.
It's perfectly acceptable for you to explain that you don't know of course.

[Јas]

OK - I'll break real simple for you

President getting to vote in senate not good
Non-elected person being VP also not good

I didn't ask you to repeat yourself, I asked you to explain yourself.
It's perfectly acceptable for you to explain that you don't know of course.

If the president gets to sign or veto legislation AND vote on it, that is not acceptable.  Where is the checks and balances?  Seperation of power?  Now, if the VP casts a vote in favor to break a tie, the president can veto it.  Now, if the president votes yes its over because he can sign it too.  The checks disappear.

The tie-breaking vote is of very limited use, and the Vice Presidency isn't a check on the powers of the Presidency. The Senate and the Court and the people are the checks. The argument could be used as reasoning to reject the rebalancing of anyone's powers.

And if all else fails, having the President break ties is only one option I presented.

What of requiring a majority vote to pass amendments in the Senate, and so removing the need for any tie-breaker?

[Јas]

What of requiring a majority vote to pass amendments in the Senate, and so removing the need for any tie-breaker?

In a senate of so few people, I don't see that as plausible.  The difference between getting 5 votes for something and 6 is quite different

But you said yourself earlier the need for a tie-breaking vote is unusual as is.
How many ties have there been in the last term? 2? 3?
Out of how many votes? 40? 50?

[Јas]

But you said yourself earlier the need for a tie-breaking vote is unusual as is.
How many ties have there been in the last term? 2? 3?
Out of how many votes? 40? 50?

It's also comparatively unusual for the government to prosecute court cases - perhaps the President could fulfill the role of the AG?

If the power were to be removed from the AG, then I'd probably recommend the ability of the President to appoint a special prosecutor as the need arises.

[Јas]

Amendment

1. The office of Vice President is hereby abolished.

2. On such occasions when the office of President shall fall vacant, a special election shall be held no fewer than 7 and no more than 14 days after the vacancy arises, to complete the remainder of the Presidential term.

3. Between the arising of a vacancy in the office of President and the swearing-in of a new President, the powers and duties of the Presidency shall be vested in the Governors of the Atlasia as a whole, said powers and duties being exercisable by majority vote.

4. A special election shall not be necessary where a vacancy in the office of President arises after such time as the election of a President-elect has been certified or where it arises less than 14 days prior to the election of same. In such circumstances, the President-elect may swear-in immediately.

5. Whenever the President transmits to the Senate President pro tempore his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Governors of the Atlasia as a whole, said powers and duties being exercisable by majority vote.

6. Whenever a majority of the Cabinet and a two-thirds majority of the Senate sign a declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Governors of the Atlasia as a whole, said powers and duties being exercisable by majority vote. Thereafter the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office upon his declaration that he is capable of discharging the said powers and duties, or when the Cabinet and Senate annul their previous declaration.

7. On such occasions as ties may arise in the Senate, the measure at vote shall be deemed to have failed.


Unconvinced as I am by the need for a VP, the above amendment proposes the abolition of the Vice-Presidency. Comments are encouraged.

[Јas]

Aye

[Јas]

It seems my assessment of the Vice Presidency is a distinctly minority opinion.
I wish you all the opportunity to spend some time in that office for the chance to change your mind.

[Јas]

Nay