1st DEM Debate Thread: June 26 & 27, Miami, MSNBC & NBC & Telemundo (9-11pm)

[Famous Mortimer]

What's the point of illegal immigration even being a civil offense if all the candidates have pledged never to deport anyone unless they've committed a major crime? Illegal immigrants will just keep accruing fines for as long as they are here? Will they be put in jail if they don't pay fines? Every single candidate in the debate took this position but it doesn't appear any of them even thought it out.

[Famous Mortimer]

Wants the point of illegal immigration even being a civil offense if all the candidates have pledged never to deport anyone unless they've committed a major crime? Illegal immigrants will just keep accruing fines for as long as they are here? Will they be put in jail if they don't pay fines? Every single candidate in the debate took this position but it doesn't appear any of them even thought it out.

What do you have against immigrants? They are human too, unlike you.

We don't have infinity resources and thus cannot share our resources with an unlimited number of people. Simple as.

[Famous Mortimer]

Wants the point of illegal immigration even being a civil offense if all the candidates have pledged never to deport anyone unless they've committed a major crime? Illegal immigrants will just keep accruing fines for as long as they are here? Will they be put in jail if they don't pay fines? Every single candidate in the debate took this position but it doesn't appear any of them even thought it out.

What do you have against immigrants? They are human too, unlike you.

We don't have infinity resources and thus cannot share our resources with an unlimited number of people. Simple as.

Immigrants produce more resources than they consume.

Every single immigrant? Obviously some do and some don't. It would be wise, at the very least, to select for the ones that do, that's what Canada does. If you just allow anyone as long as they aren't a murderer, that obviously creates an incentive for the people who don't to come here. Why wouldn't they? There's no punishment and they get welfare (also, funny thing how their own countries can't provide welfare. Why do you think that is? It's because most people in their countries don't actually produce more than they consume).

[Famous Mortimer]

Wants the point of illegal immigration even being a civil offense if all the candidates have pledged never to deport anyone unless they've committed a major crime? Illegal immigrants will just keep accruing fines for as long as they are here? Will they be put in jail if they don't pay fines? Every single candidate in the debate took this position but it doesn't appear any of them even thought it out.

What do you have against immigrants? They are human too, unlike you.

We don't have infinity resources and thus cannot share our resources with an unlimited number of people. Simple as.

Ah yes, the infinity people who exist outside the united states. Naturally when dealing with infinity people it might seem daunting to be accommodating and so...

Wait... there isn't an infinite number of people. Like, in existence. Oh I guess that makes this argument about needing infinity resources kind of silly.

This is pedantic. Okay, it's not infinity, it's "however many out of the 7 billion people on the planet are willing and able to reach the border". Do you think providing for the welfare of those tens of million (at least) of impoverished people is an easy task? It's hard to take care of the people here now. Why do you think adding more people (and adding more people who are much much poorer than the people will already have) will make the situation easier?

[Famous Mortimer]

Wants the point of illegal immigration even being a civil offense if all the candidates have pledged never to deport anyone unless they've committed a major crime? Illegal immigrants will just keep accruing fines for as long as they are here? Will they be put in jail if they don't pay fines? Every single candidate in the debate took this position but it doesn't appear any of them even thought it out.

What do you have against immigrants? They are human too, unlike you.

We don't have infinity resources and thus cannot share our resources with an unlimited number of people. Simple as.

Ah yes, the infinity people who exist outside the united states. Naturally when dealing with infinity people it might seem daunting to be accommodating and so...

Wait... there isn't an infinite number of people. Like, in existence. Oh I guess that makes this argument about needing infinity resources kind of silly.

This is pedantic. Okay, it's not infinity, it's "however many out of the 7 billion people on the planet are willing and able to reach the border". Do you think providing for the welfare of those tens of million (at least) of impoverished people is an easy task? It's hard to take care of the people here now. Why do you think adding more people (and adding more people who are much much poorer than the people will already have) will make the situation easier?

Not, it isn't an easy task. It isn't an easy task taking care of American citizens either, and we generally fail to do that as is. But instead of rounding up the poor and firing them into space or something, we let them exist and occasionally try to do something sensible to help their plight. Not effectively, but hey, sometimes we try, so go us?

And no, it won't make the situation easier. At least not in the short term. But that's an us problem, not a they problem. We're bad at insuring the general welfare of people while spending hundreds of billions on the military every year. Are happy to do big tax give aways to the already wealthy. And all the other things. That isn't the fault of those who are seeking opportunity or fleeing violence in their homelands. They just want the same thing the rest of us do, to be able to live our lives.

And people here are just so caught up on technicalities and notions of us vs them that they can't see that they are simply people. Not this weird alien menace that will sap our resources and bring about the destruction of mom and apple pie.

I responded as I did because I guess I'm just tired of the ridiculous framing of the issue. And so I pointed out the explicit ridiculousness on display. And you know what, I'd be happy to work with someone from a foreign land who believes in the promise of America to make America better for all of us. To make sure we can support each other, all those who are here, and all those who might drop by. Because we can, if we work together.

But I don't got any time for those who cry about the limitations of America. Who claim we can't, who peddle lie and hyperbole to suggest that we're at our limit because of immigrants straining the system. Because they're not the ones who built the trap, they're not the one's exploiting me, you, and those from across the boarder who seek hope and survival. We can, and should be doing better, so maybe lets do that. Which yes, means ending the influences of those who've got a stranglehold on our democracy.

The United States is a country like any other. It has limitations. It is not magic. It's funny that left-wingers adopt this attitude of "American exceptionalism" but only when it comes to the issue of immigration/redistributing the wealth of Americans to foreigners. Very weird form of patriotism.

[Famous Mortimer]

lol other countries do not give free healthcare to illegal immigrants

and the Republicans "far right" turn consists of promoting Canadian style merit based immigration laws.