Pelosi is Confronted By Protesters Angry About Her Immigration Talks With Trump (user search)
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  Pelosi is Confronted By Protesters Angry About Her Immigration Talks With Trump (search mode)
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Author Topic: Pelosi is Confronted By Protesters Angry About Her Immigration Talks With Trump  (Read 895 times)
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WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 6,010
United States


« on: September 19, 2017, 10:08:14 AM »

You have to deport at least some people.

If you allow everyone who wants to come here to come here, they would out number the native born.

It will be literally impossible to offer any services (let alone additional services like universal healthcare and free college) because there will be more free riders than tax payers.

You cannot just let everyone in.

At some point, you have to favor people who are already citizens.

I say we start doing it before the country is no longer economically viable, rather than after.

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Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 6,010
United States


« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 10:22:50 AM »

You have to deport at least some people.

If you allow everyone who wants to come here to come here, they would out number the native born.

It will be literally impossible to offer any services (let alone additional services like universal healthcare and free college) because there will be more free riders than tax payers.

You cannot just let everyone in.

At some point, you have to favor people who are already citizens.

I say we start doing it before the country is no longer economically viable, rather than after.



Jesus, undocumented immigrants are not "free riders". Do you think Juan from Mexico makes the enormous effort to get here and then sets up on a couch to eat Cheetos 24/7?

No. He comes here to do menial labor which will incur no income tax while starting a family that will use lots of services.

47% of our population already use more in services than they pay in tax. We are already at a breaking point. No, I do not think people who come here from a third world country because they are economically desperate will end up being among the net contributors.
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WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 6,010
United States


« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 10:26:06 AM »

and I have no problem with a small number of people being net consumers of services. I have no problem with a small number of free riders.

but when the population is majority net consumers, we won't have enough revenue to provide decent services to anyone, net consumer or net producer.
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Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 6,010
United States


« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 10:46:03 AM »

The notion that undocumented people don't pay taxes is a total myth. Large numbers of them pay taxes, because you know, they actually care about America and want to contribute. They pay billions of dollars in federal and local taxes and they contribute billions of dollars to social security every year. Yet, they are ineligible to receive the vast majority of government services despite their contributions. Many undocumented people are basically altruistically donating their own money to pay for the services of American citizens. The real entitled people are the ones that think only American citizens should be eligible for services despite the contributions of millions of others to that pool of money.

Why do immigrants care about America? Why don't they pay their taxes to the government in their country of origin? What possesses someone from Mexico to care about American retirees? Not only that, but to care about American retirees more than Mexican retirees? It seems to me more likely that they don't actually care about American retirees. They aren't coming to America to clean toilets and run taco trucks because of altruism. They are coming to America because it benefits them and their families personally. If they pay taxes, it's because it's a sales tax they literally can't avoid paying or if they're using a fake social security number and end up paying social security taxes, it's because they have to in order to work and they don't have a  choice in the matter.

Even when they pay sales tax though, and even in the rarer case that they have to pay income tax (although they never usually do), their families still end up using more in services than they contribute in taxes.
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Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 6,010
United States


« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 10:49:08 AM »

You can't really believe Mexicans immigrate to America to help out native born Americans. Like you seriously can't believe that, can you? That's so dumb. Who do you think you are convincing with this argument? No anti-immigration person would believe this just because it's stupid and even a pro-immigration person would be less inclined to support immigration if you paint it as a sacrifice (mostly) brown people are making for the sake of (mostly) white people.
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WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 6,010
United States


« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 12:13:19 PM »


None of these links go against anything I said.

These links say about half of illegal immigrants pay Social Security (which means half don't).

These links say they pay sales tax, which I acknowledged but sales tax doesn't fund the programs immigrants and their families use.

These links certainly don't say anything about immigrants immigrating out of altruistic love for American retirees.
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Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,010
United States


« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 02:37:33 PM »

I still don't know how terrible a path to citizenship is for people who haven't committed crimes. And by crimes I mean violent crimes or sale of illegal drugs (not marijuana). Get them on a path, have them start to pay back taxes, everyone wins. Don't see what's so bad about that.
The argument is that it creates bad precedent for future waves of migration. We reward illegals for bad behavior now and we'll just be doing it every twenty years. I'm all for an easier immigration program to allow these same people the chance to enter the country legally, but I don't see what is solved by just absolving them of their indiscretions.

That falls apart though because DREAMers did nothing wrong. Just existing in a country isn't a sin, especially when they didn't even come here of their own free will.

No one said it was a sin.

Being deported to your country of origin isn't a punishment either.

You guys sound more nationalists than the nationalists when you act like being made to live in a non-white majority country is some horrible crime against humanity.
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