Trump: GOP will become "workers' party" (user search)
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  Trump: GOP will become "workers' party" (search mode)
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Author Topic: Trump: GOP will become "workers' party"  (Read 4468 times)
Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,010
United States


« on: May 26, 2016, 07:18:49 PM »

I like the direction Trump is taking the party but I doubt it will last past his loss. There are no actual politicians in the Trump wing of the party, just Trump himself, everyone else is against ideological realignment. The few politicians who do support Trump (Palin, Carson) are dullards who have espoused establishment conservatism in the past and probably will again, as they don't even really understand what they're saying. Most Trump voters are the same way. They agree with Trump's statism on one level, but they don't realize it unless Trump is there to hold their hand. If he isn't, they too will drift back towards free-market orthodoxy.
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Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,010
United States


« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2016, 03:19:11 PM »

Trump is Teddy Roosevelt with less likability and with an electorate that is less susceptible  to his off-color style (aka, unlike Teddy, he'll lose); the GOP wasn't like Trump/Roosevelt before, and it won't be like Trump after he's gone (just like it went back to normal after Teddy/Taft).

For the final time, until the Democrats offer a cozy home to affluent Whites and the business community, they're going to remain Republicans, regardless of infighting (there have always been factions, for Christ's sake) ... and the Democrats are NOT going to offer that sanctuary.  Period.  They are a party of the truly poor, minorities, government employees, public unions, academia and social justice warriors; not one of those groups is going to be okay with shifting in an even more neoliberal direction, as evidenced by the Democratic Party of 2016 arguing over how much taxes should go up, how much we should restrict free trade and how tough we should be on Wall Street.  Progressive economic thought is winning right now, and Trump is reacting (just like economic conservatism was winning in the '80s and '90s and Clinton reacted), but there's literally zero chance that the GOP moves further left than the Democrats.  Zero.  And that's what would have to happen for this realignment that some of you Dems are having wet dreams about.

For every move the GOP has made "left" fiscally, the Democrats are about ten steps ahead and show no signs of slowing down, even with (for some reason seen as at all moderate) Hillary.

I don't think Republicans will move left long term but Democrats will absolutely move right and it's already started. You see that in Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton's opposition to free college because "then rich people will get free college too". Similarly, I've met many leftists and SJWs who think minimum wage laws shouldn't apply to small (ie immigrant and minority owned) businesses because they can't compete otherwise. There's been talk of means testing Social Security and when people discover that that means taking away benefits from White people, that talk will only get louder. Free trade is an odd one. That's like a Bernie personal opinion and a lot of his supporters cling to it because it demonstrates a concrete different he has with Hillary. Really though, polls show most Democrats support free trade. As the party becomes more foreign born and less union, those pro-free trade numbers will only increase.
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Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,010
United States


« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2016, 02:52:58 AM »

 In Austria last Sunday about 86% of blue collar workers voted for the "right wing" candidate Hofer against the "left-wing" candidate Van Der Bellen.  In some European countries the perceived more nationalist, pro-low or no immigration parties are becoming the manual workers party.

This is just the restauration of the pre-Mussolini status quo.

wtf

Before Mussolini, the working class were not part of "nationalist" political parties. In fact, they were part of internationalist political parties and the most active among them saw themselves as sharing more in common with other workers than with their capitalist compatriots. I know you know this because you aren't a fool but I'm pointing it out to remind you that your narrative is stylized and designed to fit your worldview.

The media has decided, per usual, that working class whites and poor whites in the West are to blame for the rise of the far-right and xenophobia. Little focus or attention has been directed towards the fact that, in actuality, it is the lower middle class that is the far-right's base. Protest votes might be cast for the FPO or for Trump or the FN by the working class but the party activists are definitely not working class.

I'll grant that the far-right in the 21st Century derives its support from a much wider base than the far-right of the early 20th Century, which was almost exclusively a middle class force, but, regardless, it's simply not true that union members or tradesmen particularly gravitate towards Trump or the far-right. This is a claim that's desirable if one is liberal because it allows forces of democracy to detach themselves from those pesky working class agitators who have the temerity to question aspects of "neo-liberalism". Alas, it's entirely false, as is your bizarre claim that Sanders supporters will gravitate towards Trump when, in fact, Sanders supporters are quite comfortable with free trade and internationalism, as are supporters of parties like SYRIZA, Podemos and the like.

Nice of you to not want to blame the working class but you're just wrong. The working class is behind the rise of Trump and the FPO. First of all, the distinction between "working class" and "lower middle class", if it can be made at all, is pretty close to nothing. You're saying that cashiers are good honest people who are being mislead but retail shift leaders are evil, racist fascists. Second, you admit the working class vote for Trump and the FPO but you assume their support isn't sincere or real since they don't become Trump or FPO activists. This is a very unreasonable assumption. The working class don't become activists in general, for any political movements, because by definition they can't afford to, they have to work to support themselves. Do you assume that because most Democratic Party activists aren't working class, working class support for the Democratic Party is similarly insincere?
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