Who are poople gonna blame for the shoutdown? (user search)
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  Who are poople gonna blame for the shoutdown? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Who are poople gonna blame for the shoutdown?  (Read 1965 times)
Blackacre
Spenstar3D
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,172
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.35, S: -7.22

« on: January 20, 2018, 12:01:23 PM »

Democrats caused the shutdown, they shut down the government over DACA. So they will get the blame
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Blackacre
Spenstar3D
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,172
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.35, S: -7.22

« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2018, 12:55:02 AM »

Changed my mind.

1. It's easier for Ds to make their case than Rs. Rs have to explain the filibuster and how they couldnt just pass a bill even if they have a trifecta. If people understood the filibuster more, 2010 would have been better for Democrats.

2. We had a DACA deal. It was a bipartisan compromise. Then Trump blew it up with his sh*thole countries comment. Therefore the blame for the shutdown rests on Trump's shoulders.
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Blackacre
Spenstar3D
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,172
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.35, S: -7.22

« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2018, 01:11:47 PM »

Schumer and the Democrats are the ones who kept it from getting enough votes, they just wanted to legalize millions of new Democrats to gain power and keep it forever. Hopefully the general public doesn't fall for the narrative the MSM will make.

No.

The Bipartisan DACA deal that Schumer and Durbin would have signed onto had Trump not blown it up would have included a 10 year waiting period for full citizenship for DACA recipients. This provision was included specifically to assuage concerns about this being a political ploy to gain power. (I don't agree with it myself, but I understand why it was there)

The thing I hate the most about this whole debate is the insistence of so many on the right such as yourself that Democrats are acting in bad faith -- that we want this not because it's objectively the right thing to do, but because doing it helps us gain and keep power. That could not be farther from the truth. Nobody with any influence on the left actually thinks like that. So your narrative about why we want to do this is complete bullpucky and you should be ashamed for even suggesting it.

Now you may respond "but Democrats assume bad faith from Republicans when they try to pass Voter ID laws" as a defense of bad-faith assumptions of the opposite side. However, this is a false equivalence. When we assume that Voter ID proponents are acting in bad faith, it's for two reasons. One, no proposed Voter ID law (that I am aware of) makes it any easier for a citizen to get a Voter ID, which is the kind of bad-faith-erasing action similar to the waiting period for DREAMers getting citizenship. But more importantly, we assume bad faith because there is a multitude of clips showing Republican proponents of Voter ID explicitly stating that the purpose of the bill is to help them electorally. As far as I am aware, there is no evidence of any Democrat saying that the purpose of DACA and immigration reform more broadly is to help them electorally.

We are acting in good faith, and only wish for DREAMers and other undocumented immigrants to be able to live and work in the country they call home without fear of losing everything to deportation. To assume any other motive is to be willfully ignorant, and it reveals more about your own cravenness than it does about us.
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