Greek election - January 25th 2015

[Beezer]

Let's get this over with. A Syriza victory and government would maybe bring about some sort of resolution to this crisis either because of a Grexit or because the Greek left would forced to adopt a more centrist stance on the bailout and reforms, leading to a massive Syriza drubbing in the next election. An ND victory on the other hand would be more of the same for Greece and the eurozone.

[Beezer]

First shot of the troika/austerity camp in this contest: German government now thinks Grexit would be manageable. (German)

[Beezer]

They are obviously referring to the veiled (or in some cases very direct) threats by EU and German officials of Greece exiting the Eurozone if SYRIZA is elected.  And I couldn't agree more with them.  If Greece is still an independent country they should be allowed to vote for whoever is best for them, not for Merkel or Germany.

Well, Germany and the rest of the eurozone share a currency with Greece and a number of countries have invested a lot of money in ensuring the prevention of a complete Greek default (i.e. a complete restructuring of the debt would have serious consequences for Germany's balance sheet as well). So it's perfectly natural and normal for these leaders to have a position on what is transpiring in Greece. Moreover, it's sensible to remind the Greek electorate that Syriza's plans (debt write offs + ECB QE to fund Syriza's budgetary vision) won't come to fruition.

[Beezer]

They are obviously referring to the veiled (or in some cases very direct) threats by EU and German officials of Greece exiting the Eurozone if SYRIZA is elected.  And I couldn't agree more with them.  If Greece is still an independent country they should be allowed to vote for whoever is best for them, not for Merkel or Germany.

Well, Germany and the rest of the eurozone share a currency with Greece and a number of countries have invested a lot of money in ensuring the prevention of a complete Greek default (i.e. a complete restructuring of the debt would have serious consequences for Germany's balance sheet as well). So it's perfectly natural and normal for these leaders to have a position on what is transpiring in Greece. Moreover, it's sensible to remind the Greek electorate that Syriza's plans (debt write offs + ECB QE to fund Syriza's budgetary vision) won't come to fruition.

I'm afraid that you are missing something with those massive loans, mostly granted by the ECB, the EU and the IMF (only a tiny share came directly from Germany).

And where do you think the EU or ECB get their money from?

[Beezer]

Please, care to read the text I linked before and extract your own conclusions. Otherwise, it'd be boring to continue this discussion. Boring to death.

The initial and primary point still stands - Eurozone taxpayers will share these losses, ergo their governments unsurprisingly have an interest in the outcome of these elections. There really is no such thing as "national sovereignty" in the EU of 2015 anymore.

Whether Germany has made money from these various bailouts is also up for debate seeing as the point can be made that the share of the Greek debt held by German banks (among Eurozone banks) a few years ago amounts to the share Germany pays into a variety of funds (ECB, ESM).

[Beezer]

Partly from Germany, but clearly under 50%. So,Merkel should stop monopolising all Europe for her. You lost WWI, you lost WWII and you won't be allowed to rule Europe.

Merkel can't run Europe (if she is even doing that) without the support of a variety of other countries. So blame Austria, Finland, the Netherlands etc. for going along with her policy proposals.

[Beezer]

There really is no such thing as "national sovereignty" in the EU of 2015 anymore.

Wow.  Just wow.

Where have you been these past few decades? Of course you can claim that every country can theoretically leave the EU now (so they do hold the reigns of power in a nuclear option sense) but when it comes to the day to day running of the EU and its member states national sovereignty has been curtailed.

[Beezer]

G-Pap not in?

[Beezer]

So what is the magic number for an outright majority? Around 36.8%?

[Beezer]

The front page of tomorrow's Liberation:


Also Renzi congratulated Tsipras, and Gianni Pittella the leader of the EU Socialist group in the Parliament said that Greeks voted against austerity.  Pablo Iglesias also said that fear is fleeing.

What sort of perspective exactly does Tsipras offer? More of the same sort of spending policies that got Greece into this mess in the first place?

[Beezer]

smh

Please do elaborate on how past Greek governments created a sound footing for the country's economy.

[Beezer]

Obviously Greece didn't get as good of a deal as West Germany in 1953. Half their debt cancelled! And for good reason - with the need to repair after the war and commies just to the east. What Tsipras demands is less generous than that.

Germany also possessed the foundations for a functioning economy back then. After a complete debt relief Greece would be burning through money they don't have from the word "go" with Tsipras' policies.

[Beezer]

Looks like PASOK may come in last among the parties above the 3% threshold...

[Beezer]

So where exactly are the similarities between Syriza and ANEL other than that they disapprove of the troika? This almost feels like a coalition between the Left Party and AfD here in Germany.

[Beezer]

First thing Tsipras does is visit a memorial to 200 Greeks killed by the Nazis...

http://news.sky.com/story/1415233/greece-alexis-tsipras-visits-war-memorial