Kyoto Accord Goes Into Effect Today (Feb 16, 2005)

[Frodo]

Kyoto Treaty Takes Effect Today
Impact on Global Warming May Be Largely Symbolic

By Shankar Vedantam
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 16, 2005; Page A04

The Kyoto treaty to reduce global warming goes into effect today after seven years of wrangling, harangues, and dramatic entrances and exits by Russia and the United States.

The global environmental movement calls it a historic victory, but critics in the industry and elsewhere say the bang could end in a whimper: Emissions of carbon dioxide will continue to rise, many of the cuts in greenhouse gases claimed under Kyoto probably would have happened anyway, and its future could be derailed by the stony opposition of the Bush administration.

Supporters acknowledge those realities but argue that the real impact of the treaty is not tangible.

"The greatest value is symbolic," said Eileen Claussen, president of the Pew Center on Global Climate Change, an independent research and advocacy organization that works with many large companies interested in addressing the risks of global warming.

With the United States on the sidelines, the Kyoto treaty could end up as ineffectual as the post-World War I League of Nations. But by uniting the vast majority of the world's nations, Kyoto could equally be the harbinger of an international model that rewards pollution-cutting innovation and pushes countries and companies to pursue cleaner forms of growth.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27318-2005Feb15.html

[Silent Hunter]

141 countries have ratified this. Who are the other 51?

[minionofmidas]

Headline of Germany's Green-leaning Tageszeitung today:
"A major step for Mankind, a small step for World Climate."

[KEmperor]

Boy am I glad we dodged that bullet.  I'm going to enjoy watching Canada and Japan try to implement this.

[Richard]

Boy am I glad we dodged that bullet.  I'm going to enjoy watching Canada and Japan try to implement this.

We're not going to.  We may have signed it, but Alberta has already signaled it will not obey the federal government if they try to force the province to implement it.

[Jake]

141 countries have ratified this. Who are the other 51?

The intelligent ones who don't wish their economies destroyed.  It will be great to see Japan fall into a depression from this.

[KEmperor]

Well, here are some facts:

The Kyoto Treaty binds signatories to limit current emissions to 1990 levels.

Spain and Portugal were 40.5 per cent above 1990 emissions levels in 2002, Ireland 28.9 per cent and Greece 26 per cent, according to UN data. By comparison, Australia was 22.2 per cent above 1990 levels and the United States 13.1 per cent.  In Japan, the world's number two economy, emissions have risen eight percent over 1990 levels.

Got that?  The world's number one & two economies, USA & Japan, increased emissions 13.1% & 8% respectively, while the rest of the world (i.e those who emit 75% of the human emissions of carbon dioxide) have increased emissions by twice the rate of the US and three or more times that of Japan.  So, can you infer who's installing more efficient equipment and processes?  It sure as hell ain't Spain.  Yeah, and we're the bad guys in all this.

[Richard]

141 countries have ratified this. Who are the other 51?

The intelligent ones who don't wish their economies destroyed.  It will be great to see Japan fall into a depression from this.

I'm with you on this.

Rip-off Britain?  Not anymore!  Treasure Island is more like it, because you literally need a Treasure to live there!!

Have fun morons!

[Richard]

Oh and, Americans, be prepared for the brain drain out of Canada to grow tremendously.  This is a good thing for you guys!   All the profitable Canadian, and probably some European and Japanese businesses, will now set up shop in the United States.

I can't wait to get there myself.

[Storebought]

Boy am I glad we dodged that bullet.  I'm going to enjoy watching Canada and Japan try to implement this.

Japan's economy has already slipped into recession--three quarters of negative GDP growth in late 2004

[ATFFL]

141 countries have ratified this. Who are the other 51?

The intelligent ones who don't wish their economies destroyed.  It will be great to see Japan fall into a depression from this.

Whaddaya mean "fall into"?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Oh and, Americans, be prepared for the brain drain out of Canada to grow tremendously.  This is a good thing for you guys!   All the profitable Canadian, and probably some European and Japanese businesses, will now set up shop in the United States.

I can't wait to get there myself.

The brain drain is LEAVING the US, you fool.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-02-23-economy-edit_x.htm

[WMS]

And praise be to the One that the U.S isn't part of this. I opposed this back when it was proposed - back when I was a center-left Democrat - because it was so blatantly anti-U.S., especially in its original 'write the rules so the U.S. takes all the economic hits and everybody else doesn't' form.

Note: as long as China and India (and everybody else not covered) are exempted from this, the U.S will NOT sign it. We had over 90 frickin' votes in the Senate opposing this! Not. Gonna. Happen.

[Frodo]

Boy am I glad we dodged that bullet.  I'm going to enjoy watching Canada and Japan try to implement this.

Japan's economy has already slipped into recession--three quarters of negative GDP growth in late 2004

so what's your point?  Japan has been in a decade-long recession since the early nineties.           

[Richard]

Oh and, Americans, be prepared for the brain drain out of Canada to grow tremendously.  This is a good thing for you guys!   All the profitable Canadian, and probably some European and Japanese businesses, will now set up shop in the United States.

I can't wait to get there myself.

The brain drain is LEAVING the US, you fool.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-02-23-economy-edit_x.htm

Nah, that isn't a brain drain, that is just contracting work out.  The immigration lines to get into the United States is as long as ever.

[2952-0-0]

Actually since 1995 China's CO2 emissions dropped by 17% so...

[Silent Hunter]

141 countries have ratified this. Who are the other 51?

The intelligent ones who don't wish their economies destroyed.  It will be great to see Japan fall into a depression from this.

A list would be nice.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I finally found a list.

http://www.climnet.org/EUenergy/ratification/1990sharestable.htm


Not ratified
It reads like the who's who of reject countries

Afganistan (Bin Laden land)
Albania
Algeria
Andorra (tiny)
Angola
Australia (only other major 1st world country)
Bahrain
Bosnia
Brunei
Burkina Faso
Cape Verde (tiny)
Central African Republic
Chad
Colombia (war torn, thanks to US)
Comoros
Congo
Congo, Dem. Rep. of
Croatia
East Timor (very new)
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gabon
Guinea-Bissau
Haiti (government just overthrown by US)
Iraq (ummm, yeah)
Iran (State dept says terrorist)
Kazakhstan (
Kenya
Kuwait (why'd we free these bastards?)
Lebanon (sh**t is hitting the fan there)
Libya (State dept says terrorist)
Moldavo
Monaco (tiny)
Nepal (sh**t going down)
North Korea (North Korea and the United States are united)
Palestine (not really a country)
you forgot Poland - no it's not on this list
St. Kitts and Lewis (tiny)
San Marino  (tiny)
São Tomé and Príncipe (tiny)
Serbia
Sierra Leone (war torn)
Singapore
Suriname
Swaziland
Syria (State dept says terrorist)
Taiwan (maybe they're mad that they're not in the UN)
Tajikistan
Tanzania
United States (fits in quite well)
Vatican City  (tiny)
Venezuela
Zaire
Zambia
Zimbabwe (one of many election stealers on this list)

[minionofmidas]

Ah yes, a comprehensive membership list of the Axis of Evil.

[Јas]

Well, here are some facts:

The Kyoto Treaty binds signatories to limit current emissions to 1990 levels.

Spain and Portugal were 40.5 per cent above 1990 emissions levels in 2002, Ireland 28.9 per cent and Greece 26 per cent, according to UN data. By comparison, Australia was 22.2 per cent above 1990 levels and the United States 13.1 per cent.  In Japan, the world's number two economy, emissions have risen eight percent over 1990 levels.

Got that?  The world's number one & two economies, USA & Japan, increased emissions 13.1% & 8% respectively, while the rest of the world (i.e those who emit 75% of the human emissions of carbon dioxide) have increased emissions by twice the rate of the US and three or more times that of Japan.  So, can you infer who's installing more efficient equipment and processes?  It sure as hell ain't Spain.  Yeah, and we're the bad guys in all this.

In general the protocol commits the world's developed countries to reduce their omissions by 5.2% overall by 2012 from their 1990 levels.

However under the terms of the EU's burden-sharing agreement, Irlenad's target is to limit greenhouse gas emissions to 13% above the 1990 levels by 2012. Emissions were 25% higher in 2003, down from 31% in 2001.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

My problem with Kyoto is that it exempts India and China. That is wrong, wrong, wrong.
The idea is good, but the whole thing is full of holes.

[scorpiogurl]

141 countries have ratified this. Who are the other 51?

The intelligent ones who don't wish their economies destroyed.  It will be great to see Japan fall into a depression from this.

I'm with you on this.

Rip-off Britain?  Not anymore!  Treasure Island is more like it, because you literally need a Treasure to live there!!

Have fun morons!

I don't have a Treasure!!! Glad to know I am a moron too!!!

[scorpiogurl]

Oh and, Americans, be prepared for the brain drain out of Canada to grow tremendously.  This is a good thing for you guys!   All the profitable Canadian, and probably some European and Japanese businesses, will now set up shop in the United States.

I can't wait to get there myself.

The brain drain is LEAVING the US, you fool.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-02-23-economy-edit_x.htm

Nah, that isn't a brain drain, that is just contracting work out.  The immigration lines to get into the United States is as long as ever.

The immigration lines to get into any Western democracy are as long as ever!!!

[Richard]

Oh and, Americans, be prepared for the brain drain out of Canada to grow tremendously.  This is a good thing for you guys!   All the profitable Canadian, and probably some European and Japanese businesses, will now set up shop in the United States.

I can't wait to get there myself.

The brain drain is LEAVING the US, you fool.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-02-23-economy-edit_x.htm

Nah, that isn't a brain drain, that is just contracting work out.  The immigration lines to get into the United States is as long as ever.

The immigration lines to get into any Western democracy are as long as ever!!!

The difference is, the lines IN Western democracies are long to get into the United States!!

[scorpiogurl]

Oh and, Americans, be prepared for the brain drain out of Canada to grow tremendously.  This is a good thing for you guys!   All the profitable Canadian, and probably some European and Japanese businesses, will now set up shop in the United States.

I can't wait to get there myself.

The brain drain is LEAVING the US, you fool.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-02-23-economy-edit_x.htm

Nah, that isn't a brain drain, that is just contracting work out.  The immigration lines to get into the United States is as long as ever.

The immigration lines to get into any Western democracy are as long as ever!!!

The difference is, the lines IN Western democracies are long to get into the United States!!

Sorry what difference? Do you have the figures to back up your assumption? I suspect the number of people emigrating from the UK to the USA is fairly stable to be honest......would be happy to see your evidence though!