Talk Elections

General Politics => Political Geography & Demographics => Topic started by: CTguy on March 24, 2004, 11:14:39 PM



Title: Puerto Rico
Post by: CTguy on March 24, 2004, 11:14:39 PM
This would benefit democrats, clearly.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: dunn on March 25, 2004, 12:59:40 AM
Free Puerto Rico


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Brambila on March 25, 2004, 01:11:03 AM
I think Puerto Rico should become a state, because they're taking our money. Start paying taxes bi*chzes!!


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Kghadial on March 25, 2004, 01:16:36 AM
I know what you mean. They better become a state, they've freeloading for two generations too many. Either free them or tax them ....

Puerto Rico wouldn't benefit democrats that much.  Practically every Republican thinks Bush has made serious inroads into the Hispanic population. They should have nothing to fear ;)

And we should combine the Dakotas while we are at it so we can still have 50 states :)


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Platypus on March 25, 2004, 01:48:00 AM
At a state level it would probably be very republican, actually, because it is very religious, although federally it probably would be Democrat.

I would like it to become a state, but it is up to the people of PR. They recentlyu had a vote to stay as the status quo, so, thats the way it will be.

Either way, I doubt that any Republican president, house or senate is going to put it forward.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: minionofmidas on March 25, 2004, 02:40:26 AM
In Puerto Rican politics, the Popular Democrats oppose statehood while the New Progressives (formerly Statehood Republicans) want it. Both parties are loosely affiliated with the US Democrats these days...


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: CTguy on March 25, 2004, 02:47:27 AM
The democrats would clean sweep... even though Bush is making inroads with Mexicans (while losing Cubans)... Puerto Ricans remain the most loyal hispanic constituent to the democratic party...  Gore won over 80% of the Puerto Rican vote in the NY metro area.

I'm too tired to give a real response to this but I will tomorrow.

And yes they should pay their ing taxes.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Brambila on March 25, 2004, 12:37:06 PM
New York is very liberal, so every ethnicity in NYC is going to vote left. Although I know Puerto Ricans are weird, (very different from any other hispanic culture), they probably will swing both ways.

I seriously like the idea of taking over Mexico. "The United States of America and Mexico". We should wait till they integrate a little more though.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: ?????????? on March 25, 2004, 12:41:17 PM
Just because Puerto Ricans in New York vote heavily Democratic that doesn't mean Puerto Rico as a state will go democrat. Most of the Puerto Ricans in NYC have lived there a generation and aren't "fresh off the boat". That would be like saying if we made Liberia a state it would go all Democrat because black people in the U.S. go for the Democrats mostly.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: dunn on March 25, 2004, 12:49:14 PM
I seriously like the idea of taking over Mexico. "The United States of America and Mexico". We should wait till they integrate a little more though.

Mexico name is Estadas Unidas De Mexido (united states of Mexico) and historiclly maybe they should take the south-west USA


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Brambila on March 25, 2004, 01:56:28 PM
I know. Sure, historically southwest USA is part of Mexico, but we took over that... why not finish it? btw I am mexican and lived in mexico.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: dunn on March 25, 2004, 02:05:52 PM
I know. Sure, historically southwest USA is part of Mexico, but we took over that... why not finish it? btw I am mexican and lived in mexico.

A la vivo
A la vavo
A la vi vo va
Mexico Mexico ra ra ra!!


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: CTguy on March 25, 2004, 02:47:46 PM
BS.  I believe PR has a democratic "governor."  It will go dem because it is poor and the people are extremely liberal on issues like abortion and gun control.  


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: JohnFKennedy on March 25, 2004, 02:49:21 PM
BS.  I believe PR has a democratic "governor."  It will go dem because it is poor and the people are extremely liberal on issues like abortion and gun control.  

it WILL go democrat? it isn't a state yet ya know ;)


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: CTguy on March 25, 2004, 02:53:41 PM
We should re-open the Puerto Rico statehood debate that was so big in the 90's.  The economy is even worse in PR now...  it is high time it became a state and they paid their fair share of taxes and got voting rights in Congress.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: © tweed on March 25, 2004, 03:30:16 PM
Stop starting polls


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on March 25, 2004, 03:48:13 PM
I support PR statehood as I believe that it would actually be quite competitive politically, unlike DC.  The PNP would eventually fold into the GOP and the PPD with the Democrats and you'd probably see either a 50-50 split or perhaps a slight Democratic advantage.  I could see the language barrier becoming a huge issue though.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Gustaf on March 25, 2004, 03:54:39 PM
I support PR statehood as I believe that it would actually be quite competitive politically, unlike DC.  The PNP would eventually fold into the GOP and the PPD with the Democrats and you'd probably see either a 50-50 split or perhaps a slight Democratic advantage.  I could see the language barrier becoming a huge issue though.

You support it BECAUSE it would be competitive? You Americans really are cynical when it comes to politics...


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: opebo on March 25, 2004, 09:03:11 PM
No way!  Surely the GOP would block such a travesty.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on March 25, 2004, 09:35:37 PM
We have to be... otherwise we'd end up with the political diversity of Sweden :)

I support PR statehood as I believe that it would actually be quite competitive politically, unlike DC.  The PNP would eventually fold into the GOP and the PPD with the Democrats and you'd probably see either a 50-50 split or perhaps a slight Democratic advantage.  I could see the language barrier becoming a huge issue though.

You support it BECAUSE it would be competitive? You Americans really are cynical when it comes to politics...


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: 12th Doctor on March 25, 2004, 09:39:04 PM
We should re-open the Puerto Rico statehood debate that was so big in the 90's.  The economy is even worse in PR now...  it is high time it became a state and they paid their fair share of taxes and got voting rights in Congress.

I agree with you here.  I have no problem with Puerto Rican statehood politically, because once they start having to pay taxes, chances are they will become more Republican.  :)

If they refuse, then let them survive on their own.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: zachman on March 25, 2004, 09:48:42 PM
They aren't going to become a state anytime soon. They are useful to us as a tourist destination without customs. Those are a pain throughout the rest of the Carribean.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: ncjake on March 25, 2004, 09:55:04 PM
BS.  I believe PR has a democratic "governor."  It will go dem because it is poor and the people are extremely liberal on issues like abortion and gun control.  

No, it doesn't have a Democratic governor because there aren't Democrats and Republicans there. And the people there are not extremely liberal on issues like gun control and abortion. Have you ever been there? I practically lived there for a time when my uncle was stationed on the island. They are about as socially liberal as Idaho.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Brambila on March 25, 2004, 10:07:07 PM
Quote
BS.  I believe PR has a democratic "governor."  It will go dem because it is poor and the people are extremely liberal on issues like abortion and gun control.  

Abortion? Puerto Rico is definately liberal on a lot of issues, but I doubt that's one of them.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: CTguy on March 25, 2004, 10:37:48 PM
Quote
BS.  I believe PR has a democratic "governor."  It will go dem because it is poor and the people are extremely liberal on issues like abortion and gun control.  

Abortion? Puerto Rico is definately liberal on a lot of issues, but I doubt that's one of them.

If it's not liberal on abortion, how come women used to flock to Puerto Rico to get abortions done?


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: 7,052,770 on March 25, 2004, 10:38:36 PM
Absolutely, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands shuold be made into the state of Puerto Rico.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: CTguy on March 25, 2004, 10:50:28 PM
BS.  I believe PR has a democratic "governor."  It will go dem because it is poor and the people are extremely liberal on issues like abortion and gun control.  

No, it doesn't have a Democratic governor because there aren't Democrats and Republicans there. And the people there are not extremely liberal on issues like gun control and abortion. Have you ever been there? I practically lived there for a time when my uncle was stationed on the island. They are about as socially liberal as Idaho.

Really, that's funny, why is she a member of the National Democratic Party then?  

http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues/2002/vol6n22/Poll0622-en.shtml

Yes I have been to Puerto Rico, twice...  If they aren't liberal on social issues, why is the major opposition party to the democrats in Puerto Rico the Progressive Party?

excerpt: "Calderon is pro-choice, as was her predecessor. While local anti-abortion groups and religious conservatives, Roman Catholics and Pentecostals, are vocal, Puerto Rico does not have a significant anti-abortion movement."

http://cndyorks.gn.apc.org/caab/articles/vieques29.htm


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Brambila on March 25, 2004, 10:59:41 PM
Quote
BS.  I believe PR has a democratic "governor."  It will go dem because it is poor and the people are extremely liberal on issues like abortion and gun control.  

Abortion? Puerto Rico is definately liberal on a lot of issues, but I doubt that's one of them.

If it's not liberal on abortion, how come women used to flock to Puerto Rico to get abortions done?

A lot of people get abortions because they don't know enough about it. Though abortion is very legal and very high in Puerto Rico, only a certain percentage of women have abortions. Contraceptives arn't used as much in Puerto Rico, so abortions are used for birth control. In a study done by TGI Puerto Rico, 57% of Puerto Ricans somewhat or completely agree with the statement that "I am more pro-life than pro-choice". Only 7% somewhat or completely disagreed. So obviously Puerto Rico is not that liberal on the issue.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: CTguy on March 25, 2004, 11:03:08 PM
Quote
BS.  I believe PR has a democratic "governor."  It will go dem because it is poor and the people are extremely liberal on issues like abortion and gun control.  

Abortion? Puerto Rico is definately liberal on a lot of issues, but I doubt that's one of them.

If it's not liberal on abortion, how come women used to flock to Puerto Rico to get abortions done?

A lot of people get abortions because they don't know enough about it. Though abortion is very legal and very high in Puerto Rico, only a certain percentage of women have abortions. Contraceptives arn't used as much in Puerto Rico, so abortions are used for birth control. In a study done by TGI Puerto Rico, 57% of Puerto Ricans somewhat or completely agree with the statement that "I am more pro-life than pro-choice". Only 7% somewhat or completely disagreed. So obviously Puerto Rico is not that liberal on the issue.

Did you read the info from the link above...  I think this is rubbish...  if Puerto Ricans were so pro-life you'd have at least one party running on that platform...  There is zero pro-life movement in Puerto Rico other than some churches saying it's wrong to get an abortion... so what, some churches say it's wrong to masturbate...  If you took a poll, 99% of people would say it's wrong to cheat on your wife, yet 50% of people do.

And the point I was trying to make was that people went down to Puerto Rico to get abortions because it was done there when it was taboo up here.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Brambila on March 25, 2004, 11:08:28 PM
Source-Women's News... lol... what a farse.

I never said that the Puerto Ricans were ardent pro-lifers, but you seem to be implying they are ardent pro-choicers, which is simply not the case.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: CTguy on March 25, 2004, 11:10:19 PM
Source-Women's News... lol... what a farse.

I never said that the Puerto Ricans were ardent pro-lifers, but you seem to be implying they are ardent pro-choicers, which is simply not the case.

No, I was implying they are more pro-choice than America as a whole, which is definitely the case.  They are not as pro-choice as Europeans but their politics is to the left of the United States on this issue.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Brambila on March 25, 2004, 11:11:39 PM
29% does not equal "most of the population". As I've already shown from several GALLUP polls, 70% of Americans are pro-life in 95% of the cases it's done.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: CTguy on March 25, 2004, 11:16:09 PM
29% does not equal "most of the population". As I've already shown from several GALLUP polls, 70% of Americans are pro-life in 95% of the cases it's done.

Ahah!  If that's the case then write your congressman today (The Republicans do control Congress you know) and ask them to support a bill illegalizing 95% of abortions...  lets see how far that gets.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: CTguy on March 25, 2004, 11:16:42 PM
Hell 70% is even more than people who are against gay marriage...  maybe they can even come up with a constitutional amendment for abortions!


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Brambila on March 25, 2004, 11:25:24 PM
I don't think you realize how long it takes to do that. It took Roe several years before the law was passed (and by the way, the "Roe" in Roe vs. Wade is now pro-life and Catholic). Further, not all of the seante is pro-life. About 85% of the republicans and 4% of the democrats vote pro-life. In the house it's more, with 81% of republicans and 21% of democrats voting pro-life.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: CTguy on March 26, 2004, 12:08:13 AM
I don't think you realize how long it takes to do that. It took Roe several years before the law was passed (and by the way, the "Roe" in Roe vs. Wade is now pro-life and Catholic). Further, not all of the seante is pro-life. About 85% of the republicans and 4% of the democrats vote pro-life. In the house it's more, with 81% of republicans and 21% of democrats voting pro-life.

How convenient of her...  she got her abortion and now she's pro-life...  she should have the decency to allow other women to make the choice she was able to make...  I don't respect scumbag hypocrites like her.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: nclib on March 26, 2004, 01:27:57 AM
While Roe is certainly a hypocrite, I thought she actually was unable to get an abortion before the case was decided.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on March 26, 2004, 10:10:30 AM
CTguy,

Puerto Rican politics is completely different and seperate from mainland politics and parties.  The U.S. Democratic and Republican parties maintain entities in Puerto Rico for the purpose of apportioning delegates and having a presence there but that is just about it.

The two major parties are the Popular Democratic Party, the island's center-left party, and the New Progressive Party, the center-right party.  Most PDP (PPD) Members would identify with the U.S. Democratic Party while NPP (PNP) members are more split.  The only case where a Puerto Rican really has to identify with a national party is in the case of the delegate to Congress.  Current PNP nominee Luis Fortuno is also the Republican National Committeeman for Puerto Rico, while PPD nominee Roberto Prats is the PR Democratic Party Chairman.

While New Progressive members are split on their loyalties, I'd suspect that it would quickly fold into the GOP should statehood arise.  It is the pro-statehood party, so if they thought being even more Republican would help, they would probably arrange for that to occur :)  The PPD would fit the Democrats like a glove.

BS.  I believe PR has a democratic "governor."  It will go dem because it is poor and the people are extremely liberal on issues like abortion and gun control.  

No, it doesn't have a Democratic governor because there aren't Democrats and Republicans there. And the people there are not extremely liberal on issues like gun control and abortion. Have you ever been there? I practically lived there for a time when my uncle was stationed on the island. They are about as socially liberal as Idaho.

Really, that's funny, why is she a member of the National Democratic Party then?  

http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues/2002/vol6n22/Poll0622-en.shtml

Yes I have been to Puerto Rico, twice...  If they aren't liberal on social issues, why is the major opposition party to the democrats in Puerto Rico the Progressive Party?

excerpt: "Calderon is pro-choice, as was her predecessor. While local anti-abortion groups and religious conservatives, Roman Catholics and Pentecostals, are vocal, Puerto Rico does not have a significant anti-abortion movement."

http://cndyorks.gn.apc.org/caab/articles/vieques29.htm


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Brambila on March 26, 2004, 10:18:06 AM
I don't think you realize how long it takes to do that. It took Roe several years before the law was passed (and by the way, the "Roe" in Roe vs. Wade is now pro-life and Catholic). Further, not all of the seante is pro-life. About 85% of the republicans and 4% of the democrats vote pro-life. In the house it's more, with 81% of republicans and 21% of democrats voting pro-life.

How convenient of her...  she got her abortion and now she's pro-life...  she should have the decency to allow other women to make the choice she was able to make...  I don't respect scumbag hypocrites like her.

Hypocrite? Becuase she converted? Gore used to be pro-life, anti-gay, and very conservative... is he a hypocrite too? Come on. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is a hypocrite and radical christian fundamentalist, it seems.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: dunn on March 26, 2004, 10:22:08 AM
I don't think you realize how long it takes to do that. It took Roe several years before the law was passed (and by the way, the "Roe" in Roe vs. Wade is now pro-life and Catholic). Further, not all of the seante is pro-life. About 85% of the republicans and 4% of the democrats vote pro-life. In the house it's more, with 81% of republicans and 21% of democrats voting pro-life.

How convenient of her...  she got her abortion and now she's pro-life...  she should have the decency to allow other women to make the choice she was able to make...  I don't respect scumbag hypocrites like her.

Hypocrite? Becuase she converted? Gore used to be pro-life, anti-gay, and very conservative... is he a hypocrite too? Come on. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is a hypocrite and radical christian fundamentalist, it seems.
Brambila
don't you understand. anybody who change his/her views for the one's of CT's is smart, the other way he is either hypocrat or stupid.
:)


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Brambila on March 26, 2004, 12:47:54 PM
I don't think you realize how long it takes to do that. It took Roe several years before the law was passed (and by the way, the "Roe" in Roe vs. Wade is now pro-life and Catholic). Further, not all of the seante is pro-life. About 85% of the republicans and 4% of the democrats vote pro-life. In the house it's more, with 81% of republicans and 21% of democrats voting pro-life.

How convenient of her...  she got her abortion and now she's pro-life...  she should have the decency to allow other women to make the choice she was able to make...  I don't respect scumbag hypocrites like her.

Hypocrite? Becuase she converted? Gore used to be pro-life, anti-gay, and very conservative... is he a hypocrite too? Come on. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is a hypocrite and radical christian fundamentalist, it seems.
Brambila
don't you understand. anybody who change his/her views for the one's of CT's is smart, the other way he is either hypocrat or stupid.
:)

Oh, sorry, my bad. I'll go mortify myself...


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Gustaf on March 26, 2004, 01:25:44 PM
We have to be... otherwise we'd end up with the political diversity of Sweden :)

I support PR statehood as I believe that it would actually be quite competitive politically, unlike DC.  The PNP would eventually fold into the GOP and the PPD with the Democrats and you'd probably see either a 50-50 split or perhaps a slight Democratic advantage.  I could see the language barrier becoming a huge issue though.

You support it BECAUSE it would be competitive? You Americans really are cynical when it comes to politics...

Ouch... :( It's true though that due to the relative honesty of our politicians we have been kind of naive in the past... :(

We don't really have those electoral problems though, our system can't be messed with the way yours can, so we don't have gerrymandering and stuff like that.


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: MasterJedi on March 26, 2004, 01:47:52 PM
I think Puerto Rico should become a state.

They would finally pay taxes, and I believe they would be a swing state. They're liberal on issues while they're conservative in their heritage.

And we should add the Virgin Islands to Puerto Rico and have it be the same state!


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: dunn on March 26, 2004, 01:53:21 PM
I don't think you realize how long it takes to do that. It took Roe several years before the law was passed (and by the way, the "Roe" in Roe vs. Wade is now pro-life and Catholic). Further, not all of the seante is pro-life. About 85% of the republicans and 4% of the democrats vote pro-life. In the house it's more, with 81% of republicans and 21% of democrats voting pro-life.

How convenient of her...  she got her abortion and now she's pro-life...  she should have the decency to allow other women to make the choice she was able to make...  I don't respect scumbag hypocrites like her.

Hypocrite? Becuase she converted? Gore used to be pro-life, anti-gay, and very conservative... is he a hypocrite too? Come on. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is a hypocrite and radical christian fundamentalist, it seems.
Brambila
don't you understand. anybody who change his/her views for the one's of CT's is smart, the other way he is either hypocrat or stupid.
:)

Oh, sorry, my bad. I'll go mortify myself...
:)


Title: Re:Puerto Rico
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on March 26, 2004, 01:55:55 PM
VI is heavily Democratic and thus not qualified for statehood :)

I think Puerto Rico should become a state.

They would finally pay taxes, and I believe they would be a swing state. They're liberal on issues while they're conservative in their heritage.

And we should add the Virgin Islands to Puerto Rico and have it be the same state!