Ahmaud Arbery's killers ask appeals court to overturn their hate crime convictions

[°Leprechaun]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahmaud-arbery-killers-gregory-travis-mcmichael-william-bryan-hate-crime-conviction-appeal/

Clearly this was murder. I hope that the appeal is rejected.

This is opening up the wounds suffered by his family.

They deserve life in prison.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Yep, although this is the risk with hate crime prosecutions - it's always harder to get or uphold a conviction based on someone's motives than based on their actions.

[Ferguson97]

Bryan's attorney, Pete Theodocion, said Bryan's past racist statements inflamed the trial jury while failing to prove that Arbery was pursued because of his race. Instead, Arbery was chased because the three men mistakenly suspected he was a fleeing criminal, according to A.J. Balbo, Greg McMichael's lawyer.

“I’m not racist, I just assumed he was a criminal the moment I saw him.”

[Yoda]

Bryan's attorney, Pete Theodocion, said Bryan's past racist statements inflamed the trial jury while failing to prove that Arbery was pursued because of his race. Instead, Arbery was chased because the three men mistakenly suspected he was a fleeing criminal, according to A.J. Balbo, Greg McMichael's lawyer.

“I’m not racist, I just assumed he was a criminal the moment I saw him.”

Laws against vigilantes need to be tougher in general IMO. It shouldn't even really matter in this case whether it was racially motivated; these men extrajudicially tried and convicted the victim in their minds and executed him. This appeal should be pointless.

[Fuzzy Bear]

They have the right to appeal.  That they may be guilty of a crime does not mean they are guilty of the crime they committed.  That's true for a lot of defendants, not just these two.

[dead0man]

I remember when out dumber cohort of redavs just couldn't figure out the difference between this case and the Rittenhouse case.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I remember when out dumber cohort of redavs just couldn't figure out the difference between this case and the Rittenhouse case.

Kyle Rittenhouse was no criminal.
Both he and the people involved in this case have rights in the court system which should be respected. But only the former deserves/deserved success in court.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The state sentenced them to life for murder but the feds decided that wasn't enough?

[Ferguson97]

That they may be guilty of a crime does not mean they are guilty of the crime they committed.

Huh?

[Badger]

Yep, although this is the risk with hate crime prosecutions - it's always harder to get or uphold a conviction based on someone's motives than based on their actions.

But the way hate crimes are usually charged are as specifications or enhancers to the underlying offenses. That is, if a jury or appeals court reviewing a conviction for murder with a hate crime enhancement and finds insufficient evidence of a hate crime, the perpetrator still are convicted of murder and receive the somewhat lesser sentence of murder, but hardly go Scott free. In other words, while prosecutorial overreach is always a possibility, strategically at least there's not much reason to charge it if there's evidence supporting such an enhancement.

[Green Line]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahmaud-arbery-killers-gregory-travis-mcmichael-william-bryan-hate-crime-conviction-appeal/

Clearly this was murder. I hope that the appeal is rejected.

This is opening up the wounds suffered by his family.

They deserve life in prison.

Murder and hate crime are not the same thing...?

[MasterJedi]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahmaud-arbery-killers-gregory-travis-mcmichael-william-bryan-hate-crime-conviction-appeal/

Clearly this was murder. I hope that the appeal is rejected.

This is opening up the wounds suffered by his family.

They deserve life in prison.

Murder and hate crime are not the same thing...?

Well if he was white they wouldn’t have hunted him down and murdered him. They did it purely because he was jogging while daring to be black in a “white neighborhood”.

[Green Line]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahmaud-arbery-killers-gregory-travis-mcmichael-william-bryan-hate-crime-conviction-appeal/

Clearly this was murder. I hope that the appeal is rejected.

This is opening up the wounds suffered by his family.

They deserve life in prison.

Murder and hate crime are not the same thing...?

Well if he was white they wouldn’t have hunted him down and murdered him. They did it purely because he was jogging while daring to be black in a “white neighborhood”.

This has nothing to do with the post I'm responding to but thanks.

[Badger]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahmaud-arbery-killers-gregory-travis-mcmichael-william-bryan-hate-crime-conviction-appeal/

Clearly this was murder. I hope that the appeal is rejected.

This is opening up the wounds suffered by his family.

They deserve life in prison.

Murder and hate crime are not the same thing...?

Well if he was white they wouldn’t have hunted him down and murdered him. They did it purely because he was jogging while daring to be black in a “white neighborhood”.

This has nothing to do with the post I'm responding to but thanks.

Except it does. If you don't get the point that's on you.

[dead0man]

well, they didn't shoot him for jogging while black in a white neighborhood, that's a clear misunderstanding of what happened.  They shot him because they wanted to detain him because they saw him in a house under construction and they were racists so they assumed he was up to no good and they are busy bodies so they thought it was up to them to do something about it and the jogger didn't want to be detained.  The guy that shot him thought he was defending himself against a criminal.  He thought he was a criminal because he's a bigot.

[lfromnj]

well, they didn't shoot him for jogging while black in a white neighborhood, that's a clear misunderstanding of what happened.  They shot him because they wanted to detain him because they saw him in a house under construction and they were racists so they assumed he was up to no good and they are busy bodies so they thought it was up to them to do something about it and the jogger didn't want to be detained.  The guy that shot him thought he was defending himself against a criminal.  He thought he was a criminal because he's a bigot.

It is definitely more on the iffy side for hate crimes which themselves are a bs law to let the governments have double jeopardy against people. Note I still fully believe they were legal of felony murder and are racists and I also still support hate crime laws as a modifier on existing crimes to make them more harshly sentenced .

[Ferguson97]

well, they didn't shoot him for jogging while black in a white neighborhood, that's a clear misunderstanding of what happened.  

They shot him because they wanted to detain him because they saw him in a house under construction and they were racists so they assumed he was up to no good and they are busy bodies so they thought it was up to them to do something about it and the jogger didn't want to be detained.  The guy that shot him thought he was defending himself against a criminal.  He thought he was a criminal because he's a bigot.

Distinction without a difference.

[Badger]

well, they didn't shoot him for jogging while black in a white neighborhood, that's a clear misunderstanding of what happened.  

They shot him because they wanted to detain him because they saw him in a house under construction and they were racists so they assumed he was up to no good and they are busy bodies so they thought it was up to them to do something about it and the jogger didn't want to be detained.  The guy that shot him thought he was defending himself against a criminal.  He thought he was a criminal because he's a bigot.

Distinction without a difference.

Yes and no. Morally it's not a distinction, but legally dead man makes a decent argument. It's basically the defendants argument. It's actually a close call in some ways.