Huntsman: Earth not flat; Christie: Sun does not revolve around Earth

[King]

Genesis 1 can fit in with an evolutionist view (i.e. the water teeming with life was bacteria; the animals Adam no longer enjoyed and felt lonely with before God made Eve were the apes).  Genesis 2 is the weird one.

[Badger]

Just curious, where does your apparantly creationist view cross with the Earth being billions of years old?

on what grounds would my creationist views be in conflict with any age of the earth greater than 6000 years?

Well, let me answer that question with a question: Approximately how long ago do you asciribe the---let's say "appearance"--of humankind?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Approximately how long ago do you asciribe the---let's say "appearance"--of humankind?

from a creation standpoint, at least 6000 years....but 6 trillion years works also from a creation standpoint, as does 600 quadrillion years

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Genesis 1 can fit in with an evolutionist view (i.e. the water teeming with life was bacteria; the animals Adam no longer enjoyed and felt lonely with before God made Eve were the apes).  Genesis 2 is the weird one.

dude, just go to bed

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Badger, is not having a point just part of your charm, or do you intend to get some place with your line of questioning?

[ag]

ag, then how many millions of generations are required for vertical evolution?

The term "vertical evolution" is about as meaningless as it gets. There was nothing "vertical" in the process that created you from a fish.

The statement that only bacteria evolve from bacteria is true tautologically: by a definition given by biologists, ANYTHING that evolves from a bacteria can only be a bacteria (like anything that evolves from an animal can only be an animal - this is a definition, inherent in classifications made up by humans).  

Bacteria are extremely diverse. From a standpoint of a biologist, the difference between different types of bacteria (e.g., between the chlamydia and the spirochete that causes syphilis) might be bigger, than between you and an oak: in both cases we are talking, at the very least, about different phyla. In comparison, you and a worm in your garden or a shrimp you ate for dinner are close cousins.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

ag, pick any organism you want, single cell or multicell,  and run it through however many generations you want to run it through...let me know when it becomes something else

[Badger]

Badger, is not having a point just part of your charm, or do you intend to get some place with your line of questioning?

Sorry I wasn't sitting raptly awaiting your next nugget of wisdom.

One point I have to start  is how you don't find conflict between the Genesis version of God creating the world and all its organisms in seven days vs. the world being billions of years old and mankind only 6000+ years old.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Badger, you are aware that individual words have multiple meanings right?

also, the sun and moon were created until the 4th day (or was it the 3rd?), so the days before had nothing to do with timint the position of the sun in the sky..

...and the 7th day was an ETERNAL day, as interpreted by none other than the bible itself...meaning, the biblical interpretation of the duration of the 7th day is eternity and that interpretatoin is explicitly give and is not questionable

so, the lengths of the days were anywhere from undefined to eternal, or a mix of undefined and eternal

[ag]

ag, pick any organism you want, single cell or multicell,  and run it through however many generations you want to run it through...let me know when it becomes something else

Well, let's just run one generation. You are not the same thing as your mother. Enough?

Every question you ask just makes one doubt: did you really graduate from high school? Or was it that sciences were not required wherever you grew up?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

ag, pick any organism you want, single cell or multicell,  and run it through however many generations you want to run it through...let me know when it becomes something else

Well, let's just run one generation. You are not the same thing as your mother. Enough?

Every question you ask just makes one doubt: did you really graduate from high school? Or was it that sciences were not required wherever you grew up?

correct me if I am wrong, but evolution states that somewhere along the line life formed and evolved into more complex organisms....I do have that part correct, that is the theory, right?  then form as many experiments that you'd like and see if an organism becomes more complex over time.

[Badger]

Badger, you are aware that individual words have multiple meanings right?

also, the sun and moon were created until the 4th day (or was it the 3rd?), so the days before had nothing to do with timint the position of the sun in the sky..

...and the 7th day was an ETERNAL day, as interpreted by none other than the bible itself...meaning, the biblical interpretation of the duration of the 7th day is eternity and that interpretatoin is explicitly give and is not questionable

so, the lengths of the days were anywhere from undefined to eternal, or a mix of undefined and eternal

So we agree ascribing a "day" to God as the equivilent of 24 hours on earth is hubris and doesn't discount The Creation and Darwinism going hand in hand.

So how do you jive that with Genesis's account of God creating the many creatures of Earth essentially out of the firmament from scratch. Unless you are saying he created the animals in multiple "waves" to constitute each "day".

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

actually, Genesis doesnt say whether there was a process, or whether things just came into being with a poof...the creation account is both timeless and process-undefined...

[Badger]

actually, Genesis doesnt say whether there was a process, or whether things just came into being with a poof...the creation account is both timeless and process-undefined...

So your problem with evolution is....?

And you would consider yourself a Creationist how.....?

Off to bed; I'll read your response in the morning.

[King]

jmfcst, what position are you advocating here?  I can't really tell.  

Although, I really don't care much either.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

jmfcst, what position are you advocating here?  I can't really tell.  

that God created the entire universe with purpose and design....but the timetable and processes (if any) he used to do so are not defined in the bible.

[ag]

correct me if I am wrong, but evolution states that somewhere along the line life formed and evolved into more complex organisms....I do have that part correct, that is the theory, right?  then form as many experiments that you'd like and see if an organism becomes more complex over time.

Evolution is direcitonless: it can lead to more complex organisms, or to simpler ones, depending on what's better suiting the environment. There isn't even much of an agreement on what's more complex: for one, a chimp is no less complex than a human.  In fact, considering that we've been separate lineages for a few million years, we are remarkably similar with chimps: if we were bacteria, scientists would, probably, need genetic tests to even tell us apart.

In any case, if a bacteria were to develop so much as a cell nucleus, it would be orders of magnitutde more shocking and harder to accommodate within our current theories of evolution than the joint second coming and public gay marriage of Jesus Christ and the Flying Spaghetti Monster would be for you ))

[Badger]

jmfcst, what position are you advocating here?  I can't really tell.  

that God created the entire universe with purpose and design....but the timetable and processes (if any) he used to do so are not defined in the bible.

So you are a typical evolutionist like most people (myself included) who accept evolution via natural selection to have been the building block of of our zoology, but realizes holding so doesn't discount the existance of God one whit because who can't say Evolution was God's tool of creation?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

correct me if I am wrong, but evolution states that somewhere along the line life formed and evolved into more complex organisms....I do have that part correct, that is the theory, right?  then form as many experiments that you'd like and see if an organism becomes more complex over time.

Evolution is direcitonless: it can lead to more complex organisms, or to simpler ones, depending on what's better suiting the environment. There isn't even much of an agreement on what's more complex: for one, a chimp is no less complex than a human.  In fact, considering that we've been separate lineages for a few million years, we are remarkably similar with chimps: if we were bacteria, scientists would, probably, need genetic tests to even tell us apart.

In any case, if a bacteria were to develop so much as a cell nucleus, it would be orders of magnitutde more shocking and harder to accommodate within our current theories of evolution than the joint second coming and public gay marriage of Jesus Christ and the Flying Spaghetti Monster would be for you ))

dude, just make something change from one thing to another, doesnt matter if it is up or down

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

So you are a typical evolutionist like most people (myself included) who accept evolution via natural selection to have been the building block of of our zoology...

no, too many endless opportunities for God to intervene...cant claim it was through natural process.  to claim such a thing is extremely presumptuous.

[ag]

dude, just make something change from one thing to another, doesnt matter if it is up or down

I've given you a perfect example: you are not your own mother - we got change in just one generation ) It's the rightly idiotic answer to an idiotic request. Until and unless you mange to formulate a question that makes sense, I don't think you should get any other answer.

[Associate Justice PiT]

correct me if I am wrong, but evolution states that somewhere along the line life formed and evolved into more complex organisms....I do have that part correct, that is the theory, right?  then form as many experiments that you'd like and see if an organism becomes more complex over time.

Evolution is direcitonless: it can lead to more complex organisms, or to simpler ones, depending on what's better suiting the environment. There isn't even much of an agreement on what's more complex: for one, a chimp is no less complex than a human.  In fact, considering that we've been separate lineages for a few million years, we are remarkably similar with chimps: if we were bacteria, scientists would, probably, need genetic tests to even tell us apart.

In any case, if a bacteria were to develop so much as a cell nucleus, it would be orders of magnitutde more shocking and harder to accommodate within our current theories of evolution than the joint second coming and public gay marriage of Jesus Christ and the Flying Spaghetti Monster would be for you ))

dude, just make something change from one thing to another, doesnt matter if it is up or down

     How do you define "another" anyway? Animals change by discrete amounts in discrete aspects. It's not like a bacterium suddenly splits into two paramecia.

[King]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2027558/Scientists-undo-evolution-create-chicken-maniraptora-snout.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2027558/Scientists-undo-evolution-create-chicken-maniraptora-snout.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

well, yeah, if the lab monkeys jack with DNA, who knows what they could create.  I was referring to a natural process.

[minionofmidas]

dude, just make something change from one thing to another, doesnt matter if it is up or down

I've given you a perfect example: you are not your own mother

Yeah well, he certainly sounds more like his own mother than any girlfriend has a right to sound.