BREAKING: Slovak PM Robert Fico wounded/shot in the stomach in apparent assassination attempt
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  BREAKING: Slovak PM Robert Fico wounded/shot in the stomach in apparent assassination attempt
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Author Topic: BREAKING: Slovak PM Robert Fico wounded/shot in the stomach in apparent assassination attempt  (Read 2510 times)
Never Made it to Graceland
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« Reply #100 on: May 16, 2024, 08:03:46 AM »

The police inspection office has started an official inquiry into the bodyguards’ actions. According to analysts, they weren’t following their own rules about interactions with crowds when Fico was meeting the people, they did not jump in to protect him after the man started shooting, Fico’s car wasn’t ready, there weren’t paramedics on standby even though it was a huge event with all of cabinet and dozens of other people and there was improper security when he was being taken to hospital. One Czech security expert said “if these were my people, I’d send them back to training.”

The footage of the shooting is bizarre. Fico had far more muscle around him than I've ever seen around a British politician - or even a British royal - and they just... didn't do anything? As if they were there for decorative purposes. Surreal.
Guess his bodyguards didn't care much for him either

Huey Long moment.
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #101 on: May 16, 2024, 08:08:59 AM »

The shooter being pro-Ukrainian doesn't prove anything, other than him having an IQ above 90.
Don’t let get in the way of our resident vatnik’s narrative
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #102 on: May 16, 2024, 08:14:22 AM »

I get it's so much more fun to speculate about the assailant's motive as if it singlehandedly proves your entire narrative of Eastern European politics, but in news that are actually relevant to the future of Slovakia, NYT had this update:

"The prime minister’s condition has stabilized, but he is “not out of a life-threatening situation,” Deputy Prime Minister Robert Kalinak told a news conference. He said that doctors were doing everything they could to help him, but that “the recovery will be difficult.”"

If this is true, I don't see how he gets to remain Prime Minister. I really hope he'll be able to make a full recovery over time, but we're probably talking months or years rather than days or weeks. So the question of succession is probably going to be posed soon enough, if it isn't already.
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lfromnj
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« Reply #103 on: May 16, 2024, 08:25:04 AM »

Would the government be bold enough to do new elections if Fico had to step down? Pellegrini still won and now they probably have more support?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #104 on: May 16, 2024, 08:27:59 AM »

Would the government be bold enough to do new elections if Fico had to step down? Pellegrini still won and now they probably have more support?

This would be a huge gamble that could easily backfire (just ask Shimon Peres), and for what? The government has a stable majority and the legislature has most of its term left.
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lfromnj
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« Reply #105 on: May 16, 2024, 08:29:48 AM »

Would the government be bold enough to do new elections if Fico had to step down? Pellegrini still won and now they probably have more support?

This would be a huge gamble that could easily backfire (just ask Shimon Peres), and for what? The government has a stable majority and the legislature has most of its term left.

That's what I figured , just asking if anyone else knew anything.
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Sir Mohamed
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« Reply #106 on: May 16, 2024, 08:34:59 AM »

The shooter being pro-Ukrainian doesn't prove anything, other than him having an IQ above 90.

Only proves that he's really dumb by assuming this is going to cause a change politics.
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Red Velvet
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« Reply #107 on: May 16, 2024, 08:52:18 AM »

Would the government be bold enough to do new elections if Fico had to step down? Pellegrini still won and now they probably have more support?

Extremely unlikely, only if they’re Portugal PS levels of stupid because it would VALIDATE the political assassination attempt and STIMULATE future attacks with that purpose.

Fico will stay and if he’s physically unable to keep his position, someone else within the party replaces him.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #108 on: May 16, 2024, 09:59:33 AM »

At this point it looks likely the shooter was a nationalist guy whose political attitudes changed after Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
So a far-right Ukrainian supporter. Okay, so I was only half-correct then. The shooter was not a liberal, but was Pro-Ukrainian.

The divisions on the far/hard/alt-right over the Russia-Ukraine war are actually genuinely interesting.
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RGM2609
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« Reply #109 on: May 16, 2024, 10:55:59 AM »

The shooter being pro-Ukrainian doesn't prove anything, other than him having an IQ above 90.

Only proves that he's really dumb by assuming this is going to cause a change politics.
Oh there will be a change in Slovak politics for sure. But yeah I think some sort of mental illness comes at play here, he probably wanted to take his rage out rather than change things. But being pro-Russian in Eastern Europe is like a turkey being pro-Christmas, it generally takes a lot of stupidity.
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Estrella
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« Reply #110 on: May 16, 2024, 01:07:55 PM »

You won't shut up for a second, will you?

Quote from: Viktor Orbán
With the change of government following the Slovak elections, Slovakia started on the road to peace. This was a great help for Hungary. Now this process has been blocked, shot in the foot. The Slovak Prime Minister was assassinated by a left-wing activist. In the most important months, Robert Fico was out of work. We are confident of his recovery, but today we must fight for peace alone. From now on, we must fight alone, with twice the strength. The European elections have become more important than ever. The violence must end! We must go out and vote for peace on 9 June!
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Zinneke
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« Reply #111 on: May 16, 2024, 01:16:21 PM »

The shooter being pro-Ukrainian doesn't prove anything, other than him having an IQ above 90.

Only proves that he's really dumb by assuming this is going to cause a change politics.

We could also use the word desperation here too. Slovakia is one of the hardest hit countries in terms of living standards, entire villages are emptying... obviously doesn't excuse violence but it's clearly been bubbling
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« Reply #112 on: May 16, 2024, 01:24:21 PM »

The shooter being pro-Ukrainian doesn't prove anything, other than him having an IQ above 90.

Only proves that he's really dumb by assuming this is going to cause a change politics.

We could also use the word desperation here too. Slovakia is one of the hardest hit countries in terms of living standards, entire villages are emptying... obviously doesn't excuse violence but it's clearly been bubbling

Is this recent or longer-term?
I don't see Slovakia standing out in population or gdp growth among other Central/Eastern European countries, but maybe those figures aren't picking up some significant changes.
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #113 on: May 16, 2024, 01:34:15 PM »


Good thread read on the shooter
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Estrella
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« Reply #114 on: May 16, 2024, 01:44:04 PM »

The shooter being pro-Ukrainian doesn't prove anything, other than him having an IQ above 90.

Only proves that he's really dumb by assuming this is going to cause a change politics.

We could also use the word desperation here too. Slovakia is one of the hardest hit countries in terms of living standards, entire villages are emptying... obviously doesn't excuse violence but it's clearly been bubbling

Is this recent or longer-term?
I don't see Slovakia standing out in population or gdp growth among other Central/Eastern European countries, but maybe those figures aren't picking up some significant changes.

On the whole, Slovakia isn't doing that badly, but it is lagging behind countries like Poland or the Baltics. When you look under the surface, most of the country is actually stagnating and Bratislava is leaving everyone else in the dust. We have some absolutely eye-popping levels of regional inequality: in terms of GDP per capita, Bratislava is the fifth richest region in the EU, ahead of nealry all stereotypically rich Western European capitals (adjusted for PPP, but still). Most of the rest of the country is barely better off than the Balkans. What Zinneke is describing really is a huge problem.
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« Reply #115 on: May 16, 2024, 02:58:56 PM »

The shooter being pro-Ukrainian doesn't prove anything, other than him having an IQ above 90.

Only proves that he's really dumb by assuming this is going to cause a change politics.

We could also use the word desperation here too. Slovakia is one of the hardest hit countries in terms of living standards, entire villages are emptying... obviously doesn't excuse violence but it's clearly been bubbling

Is this recent or longer-term?
I don't see Slovakia standing out in population or gdp growth among other Central/Eastern European countries, but maybe those figures aren't picking up some significant changes.

On the whole, Slovakia isn't doing that badly, but it is lagging behind countries like Poland or the Baltics. When you look under the surface, most of the country is actually stagnating and Bratislava is leaving everyone else in the dust. We have some absolutely eye-popping levels of regional inequality: in terms of GDP per capita, Bratislava is the fifth richest region in the EU, ahead of nealry all stereotypically rich Western European capitals (adjusted for PPP, but still). Most of the rest of the country is barely better off than the Balkans. What Zinneke is describing really is a huge problem.

To be fair, isn't it true in all post-Communist/Eastern bloc countries that capital cities are doing much better than everywhere else? Villages emptying out isn't only a Slovak phenomenon.

Though it occured to me the wealth disparity might be more stark in Slovakia than in other countries in the region. A country where the wealthy booming capital is geographically located all the way West and as you head east you head further back in time. Additionally, there aren't beachside tourist hotspots away from the capital city like in Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania, and Poland (even Ukraine when not in the midst of a war) which attract foreign investment and tourists in places other than the capital.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #116 on: May 16, 2024, 03:51:35 PM »
« Edited: May 16, 2024, 04:21:51 PM by Antonio the Sixth »

You won't shut up for a second, will you?

Quote from: Viktor Orbán
With the change of government following the Slovak elections, Slovakia started on the road to peace. This was a great help for Hungary. Now this process has been blocked, shot in the foot. The Slovak Prime Minister was assassinated by a left-wing activist. In the most important months, Robert Fico was out of work. We are confident of his recovery, but today we must fight for peace alone. From now on, we must fight alone, with twice the strength. The European elections have become more important than ever. The violence must end! We must go out and vote for peace on 9 June!

Transparently shameless thing to say, especially when you consider that Fico IS at least nominally left-wing and most of his opposition is to his right on economic issues. But of course if by "left-wing" you just mean "not a fan of autocrats"...
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Zinneke
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« Reply #117 on: May 16, 2024, 04:42:16 PM »
« Edited: May 16, 2024, 04:51:48 PM by Zinneke »

The shooter being pro-Ukrainian doesn't prove anything, other than him having an IQ above 90.

Only proves that he's really dumb by assuming this is going to cause a change politics.

We could also use the word desperation here too. Slovakia is one of the hardest hit countries in terms of living standards, entire villages are emptying... obviously doesn't excuse violence but it's clearly been bubbling

Is this recent or longer-term?
I don't see Slovakia standing out in population or gdp growth among other Central/Eastern European countries, but maybe those figures aren't picking up some significant changes.

On the whole, Slovakia isn't doing that badly, but it is lagging behind countries like Poland or the Baltics. When you look under the surface, most of the country is actually stagnating and Bratislava is leaving everyone else in the dust. We have some absolutely eye-popping levels of regional inequality: in terms of GDP per capita, Bratislava is the fifth richest region in the EU, ahead of nealry all stereotypically rich Western European capitals (adjusted for PPP, but still). Most of the rest of the country is barely better off than the Balkans. What Zinneke is describing really is a huge problem.

To be fair, isn't it true in all post-Communist/Eastern bloc countries that capital cities are doing much better than everywhere else? Villages emptying out isn't only a Slovak phenomenon.

Though it occured to me the wealth disparity might be more stark in Slovakia than in other countries in the region. A country where the wealthy booming capital is geographically located all the way West and as you head east you head further back in time. Additionally, there aren't beachside tourist hotspots away from the capital city like in Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania, and Poland (even Ukraine when not in the midst of a war) which attract foreign investment and tourists in places other than the capital.

There's skiing in Slovakia as opposed to beaches.

But the point I'm trying to make is that the neo-liberalism (that Antonio above fails to see is what fuels the Fico and Orban's of this world, as both swear fielty to explicitly illiberal politics) is changing every society at such an accelerated pace that it will lead to violence. And the blue sky "progressive" types who care more about what UN Special Rapporteurs or Davos thinks of them than their own people are not helping the Left provide a counterweight to this brand of politics. When Orban means left-wing he doesn't mean post-Communist PSD/SMER or even Magyar Socialist party, he means the groupthink in Brussels that is living in post-90s ataraxia and banging the drum of "rules based international order" when no one is taking it seriously anymore. Orban fears the Magrar socialist party much more than Momentum types.

The EU luvvy duvvy image is that if turning our continent into a place where central and eastern Europeans with economic or law degrees go to wait tables for overpaid academics and tourists in Western European countries. Slovakia is one of the core victims of the brain drain.

It's going to be a very bad outcome at the European elections as a result. If you leave anti-liberal politics to autocrats only, it's your fault.
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Estrella
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« Reply #118 on: May 16, 2024, 05:53:27 PM »

A newspaper's profile of what we know about the attacker's beliefs. He was involved with both liberals and nationalists, but he was probably neither. Above all, he was a person with incoherent but intense beliefs, frustrated both with his personal life and the society.

Quote
Extremists and nationalists label Cintula as a hateful liberal because in a leaked video from a police station shortly after the assassination he says he disagrees with the government's actions, namely the abolition of RTVS and the dismissal of the president of the Judicial Council, Ján Mazák. Moderates consider him an extremist because he appeared at a rally of the Slovenskí branci or because of his views on migrants and Roma.

Cintula's world views have so far been most closely defined by some foreign media, but as a result of a mistake. Since Cintula was from Levice, they wrote about him that he was a leftist because he was from a left-wing political party. The nonsense arose because an online translator translates the name of the town of Levice into English as "The Left", as if it was the word Ľavica, which made them think that this was the name of a party in which Cintula was supposedly active.

According to SME's findings, Cintula may have been close to left-wing views, but his frustration with the country's development and his desire to do something about it drove his life rather than his political ideology. One of his friends presented him as a "professional revolutionary", a man of action who "dislikes sloppiness, backstabbing and laziness" and tongue-in-cheek compared him to the Marxist revolutionary Che Guevara.

During socialism, when he worked in the mine in Handlová, Cintula showed that he had the guts to defy the system if he ran up against his definitions of justice. This emerges from the account of a friend of his whose name the editors know. He is said to have attended the May Day celebrations with a provocative slogan and the police used tear gas against him. On another occasion, he sawed off a statue of hammer and sickle in front of a community centre.

Under the code name "Ďuro", Cintula was invetigated by the State Security. "Until 1989, he was an anti-regime person. The ŠtB registered him, but that was because he was in conflict with and managed to oppose the regime," Štefan Ráchela, a long-time regional journalist who knows Cintula personally, explains to SME. When the Velvet Revolution came, Cintula was politically active, according to his acquaintances. At the school where he worked, he founded the local organisation of Public Against Violence (VPN). However, when he did not get the position he wanted, he left.

He went through several jobs. He worked in a mine in Handlová, later he was a teacher, had a masonry workshop or his own gym. He also worked in private security and was attacked by a customer in a shop, which was reported by Markiza television. Writing poetry was more of a hobby, but he was said to have had ambitions to be a writer. Although he was very active, he often failed to reach the peak of his ambitions. This motif is also evident in other Cintula's activities identified so far. In 2016, he tried to found a party called the Movement Against Violence, which referred to the VPN by name. However, he failed to collect the necessary 10,000 signatures.

At the same time, he approached the association Slovenskí branci (Slovak Conscripts), but in the end he was only associated with them briefly. The former head of the organization, Peter Svrček, told SME that Cintula himself had approached them, saying that he wanted to recite his poetry at the event. They reportedly talked together for only half an hour and he does not remember the details. It was supposedly the only event he attended.

He was derogatory about the Roma in his book Efata. "There have never been so many shameless gypsies in Europe as there are today. But they see well and know how to exploit the social systems of countries," he wrote. His acquaintances say that rather than ethnic racism, it was a stereotypical conviction to fight against laziness and those who contribute nothing to society that led him to do so. He also appeared at a Matica Slovenská event. The variety of associations and people with whom he actively came into contact precludes the possibility that he adhered to a specified ideology. It has also been written about Cintula that he was a member of Progressive Slovakia or that he ran as a candidate for an extremist party. None of this has been confirmed.

SME managed to identify the attacker in two publicly available photographs from an opposition rally against the adoption of the government's amendment to the Criminal Code on 7 February. Approximately 18 thousand people took part in the protest. The first photo, taken by a TASR photographer, shows his face under one of the banners. The second photo was published by the British newspaper Guardian. Cintula is recognisable in the crowd.

His friends and acquaintances agree that he was definitely not a progressive or a liberal. On the other hand, he did, however, take the war in Ukraine badly. Ráchela thinks that he was sympathetic to Igor Matovič at some points. "But I wouldn't dare to say that he significantly identified with him. I think above all he harbored an antipathy to Robert Fico," he said.

The older Cintula got, the more bitter and disillusioned he became with political and social developments. He was also said to have become increasingly controversial on social media. "As if one could expect him to commit something sooner or later," Ráchela thinks. One of Cintula's friends had last contact with him via social networks a week before the assassination of Robert Fico. As a stonemason, he consulted with him about removing a marble vase from a grave, as it was broken. "We didn't discuss politics at all."

Interior Minister Matúš Šutaj Eštok of Hlas also confirmed on Thursday that Cintula's attack on the prime minister was politically motivated, planned after the presidential election, which he was disappointed with. Cintula had already been spotted among the protesters at an earlier government retreat in Dolná Krupá on 24 April. Carrying a banner reading "Peace plus Prosperity, War plus Poverty", he stood outside the area where members of the government were arriving. He shouted slogans at them, including obscenities.

Next to him stood Marek Polonec, a member of the Democratic Party presidency. In his hands he held a banner with a different motif, but the construction and design was identical to Cintula's. The Democrats explain that they brought banners to the spontaneous, unorganised protest, which were also held by others who were present, but did not belong to them.

Local activist Matej Karásek was also at the protest, holding a large cardboard sign with Cintula that read "Towards the Pigs." They only managed to introduce themselves to each other, otherwise they did not communicate. "I am a poet," Cintula reportedly said of himself.
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« Reply #119 on: May 16, 2024, 11:01:52 PM »

sounds like he was just generally crazy and politically heterodox. This is where jumping to conclusions gets you (and I was a bit of a victim of that as well when all we knew was his writings)
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #120 on: Today at 08:45:05 AM »
« Edited: Today at 08:55:40 AM by CumbrianLefty »

What he definitely wasn't, was some sort of agent of the Ukrainian government. Which didn't stop lots of people confidently asserting that in the immediate aftermath - despite next to zero evidence.
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« Reply #121 on: Today at 09:41:21 AM »

Whatever the assassins political stance is I'm pretty damn sure that he has one.
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