Abraham Lincoln vs. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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FDR. Lincoln is only the 2nd best President.

[Orthogonian Society Treasurer]

The one that didn't create the managerial state.

[Mechaman]

Both two of the worst presidents in American history. Since Lincoln would rather me be a slave, FDR

Yeah, Lincoln just loved people being slaves, unlike the good people of Texas...

The man didn't care about abolishing slavery until it was politically feasible. He would have kept the union together if it meant slavery existed. Lincoln was trash and a racist

Have you actually read any of Lincoln's speeches/ writings from his pre-presidential career? It's pretty clear that the man abhorred slavery and wanted to see it eliminated. And yes, it's impossible to do something through the political process unless it's "politically feasible", so I'm not sure why that's part of your argument. The moment it was feasible to abolish slavery, Lincoln jumped at the chance, even when some so-called "anti-slavery" men (Horace Greeley, Salmon Chase, etc.) urged him to drop the issue. Calling Lincoln "racist" because he didn't end slavery until it was possible is ridiculous, especially considering that you're defending the people who actually had the power to end slavery in the process.

Yes, at the very worst it is comparable to Barack Obama changing his position on gay marriage even though every one knew he was always on favor of it anyway.

And that would still be a very wrong comparison anyways, given that Lincoln was NEVER pro-slavery at any point in his political career. Racist?  Very likely.  But pro-slavery?  No way Jose, please read up on what being pro-slavery actually means please.

[Cory]

Voted Lincoln.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Lincoln (sane), though they would both be in my top five presidents.

[Cryptic]

Yes, let's get back to our FDR roots. We can start by putting everyone from the Middle East into camps.

Why do that when we can suspend habeus corpus and impose martial law? Cause that clearly defined all of Lincoln's Presidency just as much as internment defined FDRs!   Pretending only one of them did questionable things is very disingenuous and doesn't diminish how important either one was to our country's history.

I voted for Lincoln, but both of them are easily the two greatest Presidents. Lincoln ended slavery. FDR guaranteed Allied victory in WWII. This was a very tough choice. Honestly, my vote would probably change from day to day.

[Mechaman]

Yes, let's get back to our FDR roots. We can start by putting everyone from the Middle East into camps.

Why do that when we can suspend habeus corpus and impose martial law? Cause that clearly defined all of Lincoln's Presidency just as much as internment defined FDRs!   Pretending only one of them did questionable things is very disingenuous and doesn't diminish how important either one was to our country's history.

I voted for Lincoln, but both of them are easily the two greatest Presidents. Lincoln ended slavery. FDR guaranteed Allied victory in WWII. This was a very tough choice. Honestly, my vote would probably change from day to day.

Yes, temporary suspension of due process while a war is happening on the nations soil is totally on the same level as imprisoning an entire ethnic group out of war paranoia from a conflict taking place largely thousands of miles away from most Americans.

[TNF]

The one that didn't create the managerial state.

It's kind of cute to pretend that the bureaucratic evolution of capitalism in the 20th Century was the result of one person, rather than an array of social forces that more or less forced the development of a state apparatus to more effectively regulate social conflict and promote industrial development.