Ford for Kerry?

[12th Doctor]

Soulty,

I hope I change my mind too.  But it won't be something Bush says or something any poster says.  I'm tired of the words.  I want action.

Do something about Sadr.
Do something about Fallujah.
Do something about Sudan.
Do anything!

I am an undecided voter.  I am leaving open the possibility that I vote for John Kerry.  I want the Bush family out of Republican politics, and if W wins than we might nominate Jeb in '08, and that is as frightening as another four years of having Bush's failures reflected on the party.

John, how can Bush do anything when he has his hands tied behind his back?  Reelect him, and a 54-46 Republican Senate and maybe we can get things done.


Your mistaking the blocking methods of the Democrats in Congress for Bush's lack of vision or leadership and that just isn't the case.

[Nym90]

Bush tied his own hands on these matters. We have huge tax breaks for the wealthy, now we can't afford to do anything else.

Plus, as I said in the "Why I'm a Democrat" thread, big business sees no advantage to going into Sudan.

Our foreign policy is not about doing what's right humanitarianly, it's about money. Sometimes the two happen to coincide....but not here.

[The Duke]

Soulty,

I'm tired of these excuses.  Take Social Security for example.  He hasn't tried.  You can't say its impossible if you're not willing to try.  Maybe social security reform would be blocked.  So waht?  Let the democrats block it, and let them answer to a generation of young voters who see this as their #1 economic concern.

[muon2]

Wow.

Let me start by saying that like NewFeddy I've seen quite a few elections. I don't go back to 1960, but I've been watching late night returns since 1968. For a long time I watched it all as a game, and I played with protest votes and third parties.

By 1990 I realized that there was more to it than watching returns every four years, and I got involved in the process. What I've learned about the inside has been fascinating. MarkDel speaks with great authority on his view at the national level, but the parties and politicians go all the way down to the local levels, and the leader at the top makes a difference.

I'm in a state where it is easy to complain about the Republican Party leadership. Between the George Ryan
and Jack Ryan cases, the party is a mess. Yet I also see that I can continue to work for positive change, to get the party on the right direction. And it isn't by throwing all the Republicans out of office who aren't "doing enough". I've learned that you don't throw the baby out with the bath water, and I can't vote to create a worse condition with any conscience.

Scientists like myself were supposed to sit in the ivory tower, but I chose to serve my community as well. What I found out is that in thousands of communities, there are a great number of hard-working, well-meaning citizens who devote a great deal of time away from their families. They do it to work together to make their community and the whole country a better place.

NewFeddy is right that the republic goes on after each election. But with each election the nation is tugged in a slightly different direction. Institutions like government have a great deal of inertia, and with each tug it gets hard to pull it back to the direction it needs to go. To some degree, large or small, every unit of government takes some measure of direction from Washington. If Washington heads on the wrong path, all those who work locally have their job made more difficult.

Three years ago, I was given the chance to pull my community in a new direction. I've been working all hours and got a lot done so far. But, even one city government has inertia, and I can't get all the action on my agenda done in one term. If I pushed that hard, I would probably have gotten nowhere.

I can respect the job Bush has done these last three and a half years, even as I respect the limitations of any executive in office. There are a lot of priorities I'd like to see addressed nationally from the President that don't seem to be out there today.

Let's take Social Security that you mention: I've been complaining about this to politicians at my door and friends in my living room since I lived in MA when Kerry was Lt. Gov. Knowing his position then and now, I know that there is far less that will be done in a Kerry administration to stabilize the SSA for my retirement in 20 years, than could happen with Bush as President.

No politician will ever match up 100% with your ideals. And when ideals are thwarted, its easy to paint the whole picture black. But, you must think for the long run, and look at all the issues. Even though the Republic will survive, it will change. Through your vote you can help set that direction of change.

[12th Doctor]

Soulty,

I'm tired of these excuses.  Take Social Security for example.  He hasn't tried.  You can't say its impossible if you're not willing to try.  Maybe social security reform would be blocked.  So waht?  Let the democrats block it, and let them answer to a generation of young voters who see this as their #1 economic concern.

John,

Believe me, I know what you mean.  I Bush would just charge in kick down the door to the Senate chamber and say, "we aren't leaving until we get something acchomplished... but it ain't gonna happen.  Things seem easy to us.  We can say, "I would do this" or "Why isn't he doing that"... but those are just words, and what do we know about it?  We aren't there.  We can say whatever we want, but if it were you or I in there, well, then it would be a different story.

These aren't excuses, just facts.  Bush has a difficult job at the moment, much harder than Clinton or even his father had.  And if he did launch on his massive domestic agenda, what would the Democrats say?  They would probablt charge that he is abusing his political capital from the War to push his agenda at home, or that he was pushing an agenda at home to take attention off a "desasterous war", which ever one the focus groups decided was more believable.  Give Bush a second term and he really won't have to worry so much about what they say, because he won't be running again.  Then we can get things done.  Don't jump ship now.  We need every person we can get.  Remember, it's not just you, what you say effects others and then they effect others they know and so on and so forth.  If you, John Ford, a man, I'm certain, a numbe of people respect, decide to turn on Bush, then others you know who might have voted for him take that into consideration.  Please, reconsider.

[??????????]

Wow. A fascinating thread, indeed. Unfortunately I don't have time really to comment on it now, though I did mention it in my own personal thread about why I'm a Democrat. I'd love to talk to John, Supersoulty, and MarkDel about this on the phone sometime. If any of you want to talk to me, email me. Mark already has my number (sorry man, I've been pretty busy lately, hope we can talk this weekend). Mark, feel free to give out my number to other Forumites too, I don't mind.

Me?

[Nym90]

Yes, I'd like to talk to you too States, and in fact I'd be willing to talk to anyone on the board, I didn't mean to exclude you, I just meant that I wanted to talk to those 3 specifically about this thread.

[The Duke]

Muon and Supersoulty have brought me back in line.  They were very persuasive, and plus I watched a Kerry speech today, and I realized something important.

John Kerry is a vagina.

He is a big, blubbering, walking, talking, piece of female genitalia.  No Republican is incompetent enough to make me vote for that prick.  Lieberman, maybe.  But not Kerry.

Kerry wants you to vote for him because he's not Bush.

Well, I'm voting Bush because he's not John Kerry.

[??????????]

John Kerry is a vagina.

Don't insult vaginas like that.

[freedomburns]

Muon and Supersoulty have brought me back in line.  They were very persuasive, and plus I watched a Kerry speech today, and I realized something important.

John Kerry is a vagina.

He is a big, blubbering, walking, talking, piece of female genitalia.  No Republican is incompetent enough to make me vote for that prick.  Lieberman, maybe.  But not Kerry.

Kerry wants you to vote for him because he's not Bush.

Well, I'm voting Bush because he's not John Kerry.

This posting made me laugh JF.  Not because its wrong, because its funny.  You have a great sense of humor (for a Republican).  

He does sound a bit limp-wristed at times.  Especially for a supposed veins-in-the-teeth war hero.  

I'm voting for myself for President because I know more than everybody and I should be President for life.  

Actually David Cobb because he promises free Ben & Jerrys if you vote for him.  Remember kids, "Vote early and often".

[Brambila]

John Kerry is a vagina.

Don't insult vaginas like that.

Yeah, John Kerry definately is not worthy of being called something so sacred. John Kerry is a dog's vagina.

[The Duke]

This posting made me laugh JF.  Not because its wrong, because its funny.  You have a great sense of humor (for a Republican).  

I do what I can.

[12th Doctor]

Muon and Supersoulty have brought me back in line.  They were very persuasive, and plus I watched a Kerry speech today, and I realized something important.

John Kerry is a vagina.

He is a big, blubbering, walking, talking, piece of female genitalia.  No Republican is incompetent enough to make me vote for that prick.  Lieberman, maybe.  But not Kerry.

Kerry wants you to vote for him because he's not Bush.

Well, I'm voting Bush because he's not John Kerry.

John,

I'm glad to see you have come around.  To be honest, you turning would have been the final straw for me.  You and Mark are basically the only reasons I stick around here.  No offense to anyone else, I like a lot of you guys and if I did leave, I would continue to talk to many of you, but this forum has been over run by left-wing extremeists.  The average IQ of this place has dropped about 50 points since when I first started posting here.  There is hardly any intellegent debate that goes on anymore, just a bunch of Bush-bashing.

The exit of Mark from the forum is much to me like loss=ing Gandalf in Moria was to the Fellowship.  I'm not copying Mark either.  I have contemplated leaving for a couple of months now, but I would have to label it a likelyhood, now.

When I joined, this place was like Camelot.  Just like Camelot, though, the fallability of many of the people on here has led to a rapid downfall.

As long as Ford is here, though, I have a reason to stick around.  He and I can still fight hard for intellectual Conservatism, and I intend to do so for the time being.

[Nym90]

Supersoulty--

I hope I would be a reason for you to stay as well...we've had some great debates, we don't see eye to eye on a lot of stuff but we respect each other a ton (I hope). I'm sad to see Mark go and it would be even worse if you left.

I try my best to be logical, coherent, and consistent in my arguments...I hope others appreciate it. I put a lot of time and thought into my posts...if people feel I am off-base I want them to challenge me on it, that's the whole point. It would be boring if everyone agreed with me.

[The Duke]

To all the old timers,

Anyone here who is thinking about leaving because the quality of debate has dropped a little, don't.  You never fix something by walking away.  You should never leave a room full of people who disagree with you.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

To all the old timers,

Anyone here who is thinking about leaving because the quality of debate has dropped a little, don't.  You never fix something by walking away.  You should never leave a room full of people who disagree with you.

I hope I have been part of the solution, and not part of the problem.

I don't want anyone to leave on account of my personal style, which can be grating for many.

[The Duke]

To all the old timers,

Anyone here who is thinking about leaving because the quality of debate has dropped a little, don't.  You never fix something by walking away.  You should never leave a room full of people who disagree with you.

I hope I have been part of the solution, and not part of the problem.

I don't want anyone to leave on account of my personal style, which can be grating for many.

No.  I was referring to the sudden tide of libertarian trolls and people like jfern and raggage.

[Nym90]

Beef, I regard you as one of the best posters here. John Ford too. I don't want to really start a list because then people will be offended for having been left off of it. But just wanted to toss that in. I like people who have abrasive styles, it keeps things interesting.

[The Duke]

I was referring to the sudden tide of libertarian trolls...

Could you be more specific? I find most of the Libertarians to have logical and appropriate posts. I cannot think of a flamer at the moment. Please advise.

Johngalt comes to mind.  Long posts about the gold standard and all.  badnarik04 a little bit, too.

[muon2]

Muon and Supersoulty have brought me back in line.  They were very persuasive, and plus I watched a Kerry speech today, and I realized something important.

Thanks for the confidence in my post. I'd been away for about a day, and after reading all the depression, I couldn't keep my fingers still.

I spent today at a fine bipartisan forum on education reform in IL. It reinforces what I said in my post about doing things for the right reasons, and working to bring sound ideas to government, even if the process is painfully slow at times.

[W in 2004]

Muon and Supersoulty have brought me back in line.  They were very persuasive, and plus I watched a Kerry speech today, and I realized something important.

John Kerry is a vagina.

He is a big, blubbering, walking, talking, piece of female genitalia.  No Republican is incompetent enough to make me vote for that prick.  Lieberman, maybe.  But not Kerry.

Kerry wants you to vote for him because he's not Bush.

Well, I'm voting Bush because he's not John Kerry.

John,

I'm glad to see you have come around.  To be honest, you turning would have been the final straw for me.  You and Mark are basically the only reasons I stick around here.  No offense to anyone else, I like a lot of you guys and if I did leave, I would continue to talk to many of you, but this forum has been over run by left-wing extremeists.  The average IQ of this place has dropped about 50 points since when I first started posting here.  There is hardly any intellegent debate that goes on anymore, just a bunch of Bush-bashing.

The exit of Mark from the forum is much to me like loss=ing Gandalf in Moria was to the Fellowship.  I'm not copying Mark either.  I have contemplated leaving for a couple of months now, but I would have to label it a likelyhood, now.

When I joined, this place was like Camelot.  Just like Camelot, though, the fallability of many of the people on here has led to a rapid downfall.

As long as Ford is here, though, I have a reason to stick around.  He and I can still fight hard for intellectual Conservatism, and I intend to do so for the time being.

Never give up!  I hope you don’t leave, Supersoulty.  The fact that there are many liberals on the forum means that there are more people for us to convince.  Look at it as a challenge.  We fight for a noble cause.  We must never loose our will to fight for the truth.  We should go down together in battle rather than one by one giving up our lives to the empty promises of liberalism and socialism.  

What do you think of my arguments against liberalism and socialism in Nym90’s “Why I am a Democrat” thread?

[© tweed]

I'm thinking of voting for John Kerry to punish George W. Bush.  I'll post why when I get home.  I'm also going to try on a red avatar.

We neither need nor want you on our side.

[The Duke]

I'm thinking of voting for John Kerry to punish George W. Bush.  I'll post why when I get home.  I'm also going to try on a red avatar.

We neither need nor want you on our side.

Tweed,

Nobody likes you.

[freedomburns]

I'm thinking of voting for John Kerry to punish George W. Bush.  I'll post why when I get home.  I'm also going to try on a red avatar.

We neither need nor want you on our side.

Tweed,

Nobody likes you.

I do not like Boss Tweed.  He talks much and says little of value.